Wednesday Night O/T: Is Chris Simms right to rank Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence

 116 replies

Welcome to AG’s nightly Open Thread, drop in and join a conversation, or start one yourself.

My first thought was that he was trolling for clicks, but apparently his evaluations are historically pretty good (although not perfect, he did have Trubisky over Mahomes in 2017). I haven’t had a chance to look at them, but having watched a little bit of Lawrence I have to agree that he’s overrated. I’m not saying he’s a sure bust or anything, but I don’t see why he’s a once-in-a-generation prospect rather than a normal very good one.

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AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
03/03/2021 10:48 pm

does anybody know a good website to liink GIFs in the comments?

Last edited 1 month ago by AndyReidStach
SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  AndyReidStach
03/03/2021 10:53 pm

Google. Just search what you want and “gif.” Copy the link address and post it here.

AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 10:54 pm

comment image

AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
Reply to  AndyReidStach
03/03/2021 10:56 pm

Thanks, some of them work and most I have to do a edit cause it shows up as a link. Developers must of shifted from a free platform to a monetary one.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  AndyReidStach
03/03/2021 11:07 pm

No, it’s because we are running on a budget, and the software we can afford won’t work to display a gif or jpg, or what-have-you, unless the URL ends in a format’s file name. As in HTTTPSSS: Examples.orgy/bad_example.gif.

Just on the off chance you can sort through all that. Has not been fun times for me, lately.

AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/04/2021 1:08 am
pompano
03/03/2021 9:35 pm

Going into the office tomorrow,comment image

pompano
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 9:41 pm

the intersection of Powerline and Hillsborocomment image

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:37 pm
Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:20 pm

Simms isn’t wrong to have his opinion. I would say Wilson has a higher ceiling than Lawrence, but Lawrence’s floor is a lot higher than Wilson’s.

I said before the CFP games that come draft time Wilson will be the 2nd rated QB, and Fields will likely be the 4th.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 9:50 pm

Simms is disliked by many, but since I don’t just listen to the words, I catch structure, tone, and word choices, as well, I find him to be one of the most tolerable of the talking heads to listen to. Taste matters, of course, but he lacks the arrogance of the Skips and Stephen As of the business. He speaks authoritatively, more so than his career as a QB warrants, certainly, but that’s the job. For all of that, the way he says things to me sounds like he’s aware of his fallibility, but does the best he can anyway, because that’s what he was hired to do.

And the talking heads themselves rather demonstrate my case here. They are two people, one during their studio work, and someone else entirely when interviewing. Simms? From what I’ve seen, it’s all Chris, all the time. I like that.

Plus Name and Plus Name
Plus Name and Plus Name
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 9:54 pm

I don’t dislike his opinion. I just think the way he speaks is annoying so I rarely listen to him.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  Plus Name and Plus Name
03/03/2021 10:12 pm

No argument. As i said, taste matters. I find Teicher to be an uncomfortably gloomy read that’s not very informative, but he’s certainly got his following. To each cat, a fine rat.

pompano
03/03/2021 8:06 pm

the 1st 8 min are fun , gonna watch later

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 8:18 pm
steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:20 pm

momma!

pompano
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:28 pm

different squeeze…

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 8:40 pm

Another squeeze

pompano
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:42 pm

🙂

pompano
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 9:11 pm
steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:44 pm

++ REMEMBER DANTE HALL, “THE HUMAN JOYSTICK?”Kadarius Toney looks like Dante Hall, but if Hall was a regular-sized receiver. He has the same style of movement, which is to say he’s an absolute nightmare for defenders to try and contend with. He has a nasty dead leg and the ability to just completely fake a defender in the wrong direction — all within a yard of moving. Even just from his first couple of targets on this tape, it’s clear we’re looking at someone with special skills.
– OK, SOMETIMES I JUST NEED YOU TO RUN THE ROUTE, THOUGHThe ball needs to come out on time at the NFL level, so sometimes you don’t have time for two different setups and fakes; just run the slant and look for the pass. Converted quarterback Braxton Miller ran routes that looked unrecoverable in the pre-draft process a few years back, but they took an eternity to develop, so they were useless. Toney has some plays here where there’s just too much going on with his routes and they take too long.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-profile-florida-wr-kadarius-toney

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 8:05 pm

I think both of those fit the Chiefs Offense

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 8:21 pm

I think our offense is flexible enough that any receiver can fit in the scheme.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:24 pm

true

but a playmaker is what is needed on the cheap

seems Hardman has speed but not much else

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 8:26 pm

I would take a steady and reliable player on the outside. That should allow Hardman more opportunities to be a playmaker.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:31 pm

agree

but Hardman needs to seize the #1 spot

Hill is a 2 or 3

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 8:43 pm

Are you drinking? Hill is our #1 WR. Kelce is our matchup nightmare. We need a dependable guy opposite of Hill. And let Hardman occasionally make plays.

pompano
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 8:46 pm

yes and yes and yes etc…

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 9:03 pm

WR position spots not pure ability What exactly is a WR1/WR2/WR3 from a football perspective? Hey guys. I get this question from time to time when I post things about matchups: Is _____ a WR1 or WR2? Short answer? I don’t know. Now for the longer answer: Football teams don’t usually use WR1/WR2/WR3 as designations. Usually they are referred to as X (split end), Y (slot), or Z (flanker). So in matchup rankings, the WR1 would be the X, the WR2 the Z, and WR3 the Y. But a lot of this depends on the team. If a team primarily trots out 2WR sets, it makes it much easier to define roles. The X (split end) lines up opposite the TE and is on the line of scrimmage. The X receiver is typically the larger, more explosive WR. Why? Because they are on the line of scrimmage and easier for a CB to jam. So you want a guy who can fight through that or just simply blow right by them. Think Mike Evans/Julio Jones. The Z (flanker) lines up on the same side as the TE and slightly off the line. They are usually the PPR monsters and are usually the smaller/quicker WRs. Wes Welker is the prototypical Z receiver. Since most teams run 3WR sets, the Y (slot) usually just lines up somewhere between the other WRs (but typically on the same side as the X). So. How do we know if a WR is a X, Y, or Z reciever? Well, it depends. Teams run all sorts of different offensive packages. Usually, they go with a 3WR/1RB/1TE set. But certain teams prefer 2WR/2TE/1RB sets. And all teams will mix it up and give the opposing DEF different looks. Teams will also move WRs around a lot to exploit matchups/avoid predictability. So what do we do? Some WRs are obviously the X or Z receiver. Some aren’t. For instance, is TY Hilton the Z or the X? A lot of people will say, well, he’s the team’s WR1, so he must be the X. But he’s smaller and… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by steve_chiefs
probablyamistake
probablyamistake
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 9:21 pm

Tom Cruise What GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

pompano
Reply to  probablyamistake
03/03/2021 9:23 pm

..he’s on a roll…

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 10:41 pm

It’s not my fault!

AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
Reply to  probablyamistake
03/03/2021 10:45 pm

Failed on the gif.

Last edited 1 month ago by AndyReidStach
Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 9:22 pm

comment image

pompano
Reply to  Severely Concussed
03/03/2021 9:24 pm

i resext the typing skill.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 10:58 pm

You seem to be trying to make a distinction between the priority of emphasis relative to each other, as in Hill draws more emphasis from both our offense and their defense, and emphasis in positional assignments, aka the Z, Y, and X assignments. Correct me if I’m wrong here, and if that’s the case don’t take the following as aimed at you, since it will be off-course.

Going from there, I don’t think your emphasis on a WR with the stats to fill a particular role is well-supported, once you pause to consider that Andy wants all of them to be able to play from all assigned positions. That means if your guy is outstanding in one slot, but so-so in the rest, he won’t work out well.

As for Hardman, I’ll be keeping an eye on his progress, but I haven’t jumped off the wagon just yet. That was his very first postseason, and he probably counted too much on the OTAs and such to help him develop. Covid cut that out, and while he could work out and stay fit, the countermeasures prevented him to schedule attending a private training camp focused on his developmental needs, the way Hill did after his first season.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 11:02 pm

But this preseason’s different. Circumstances might stay below ideal, but there has been time to plan and make arrangements, and all parties know the drill for participation. If Hardman looks like a speedy decoy who can burn you if you overlook him next year towards the end of the season, I’ll start shopping for a farewell card.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 10:00 pm

Uhhh…no. Hardman is lucky to be a 3. KC needs a big bodied WR to go with the speed. Are you high?

Plus Name and Plus Name
Plus Name and Plus Name
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 11:38 pm

Jody Fortson is about as big bodied as you are going to find in a wideout. I wonder if he makes the squad this year?

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:40 pm

To all

Question Pompano
Music Maestro
Do certain chords induce different feelings in humans?
How does music create a mood or Do humans find music to fit the mood we are in?

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:42 pm

All good questions..

pompano
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 7:44 pm

all the answers are yes…

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:49 pm
rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 8:05 pm
rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:07 pm

That song will change a mood…

pompano
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:11 pm

Page played lead on the studio vs. it seems

pompano
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:10 pm

rhythm, our mothers heartbeat, early lessons

pompano
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 8:56 pm

David Brin touched on this in his Uplift series, the sentient apes’ music was purely rhythmic,

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:05 pm

Think KC has a shot at Gabe Jackson and Kyle Rudolph in FA? Would be great if they could move enough money around to get them and Trent Williams.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:08 pm

Not sure we should get older as a team chasing Names, expensive names..

Trent Williams sure

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:44 pm

You think Rudolph would be expensive?

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:52 pm

At Christmas Priceless

Hahhahahhahah

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:56 pm

Yeah, I posted a tweet earlier with owners talking about FA being a “massacre.” Veach thinks the top flight players will get paid, but everyone considered non-tier-one will get low-money deals.

pompano
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:58 pm

the fulcrum has shifted once again.

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 8:16 pm

Shifted? To some extent, certainly, but this is an issue that’s been hovering over the veteran players since the start of the rookie pay scale being set. Before, rookies were eating up a lion’s share of available cap, so the vets got the biggest share. Except that made expensive veterans who had an off year become cap casualties if their team’s having cap problems.

I think our very own Tony wrote something up about this, but without having reviewed any data, my off-hand estimate is that the cap-casualty situation has been trending up (worse) the whole way. With the ever-expanding cap, this problem could be kept low profile, but now that the expansion has halted (at best) for a season, we’re seeing the same effect in play, it’s just that it can’t be hidden anymore. There’s no distractions, no way to talk around it, to cover it via cap expansion, and so on.

The Capmobile was cruising comfortably down the Moneyway until a wild coronavirus appeared! It used Stop Vehicle, it was Super Effective! Thing is, the rookies were all belted up, the vets were counting on their cash as a cushion. ‘Casualties’ is a pretty good term here, and in that sense, so is “bloodbath”. So while it isn’t a problem solely of their own making, it also wasn’t something so entirely random to be beyond any possibility of influence on their part.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 8:19 pm

will be interesting

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 8:26 pm

Massive, multi-casualty highway wrecks usually are. This gawker’s block could last for weeks.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 8:28 pm

I don’t think the Chiefs are gonna be part of the pile-up

Seems a number of teams are clearing cap space for the fire-sale

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 9:40 pm

Nor do I. For one thing, ruthless though it will be, KC’s fairly well positioned to slow down and hang back to let the market develop. That provides both leverage and opportunities to potentially upgrade.

Team Veach does their homework on players across the league. Hanging back: Advantage Chiefs.

Plus Name and Plus Name
Plus Name and Plus Name
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:15 pm

Rudolph and Trent Williams would be huge pickups. I don’t see us clearing that much cap space though.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  Plus Name and Plus Name
03/03/2021 7:45 pm

Hearing that KC could get below the cap pretty easy by converting bonuses.

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 8:25 pm

I would rather draft a lineman and get him cheap for a few years instead of breaking the bank for a guard.

Rudolph would be fine if we got him cheapest. I would also look at Jared Cook.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:00 pm

Interesting

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-best-nfl-draft-prospects-pff-era-trevor-lawrence

pff top prospects pre-draft over the last 7 years…..

In 2014, PFF decided to grade every single FBS game, a feat we wrapped up only a couple of months before the 2015 NFL Draft. We have now completed seven FBS seasons, and we’ve refined our methods of prospect evaluation in the process. I cringe when I look back at some takes, but they were all part of learning the translatable and not-so-translatable aspects of our college grading system.

Last edited 1 month ago by steve_chiefs
rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:04 pm
steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 6:54 pm

JADEVEON CLOWNEY
DL, TENNESSEE TITANS
comment image
NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports Titans DL Jadeveon Clowney should be fully recovered from meniscus surgery by April. “He’s close to be ready now, but it could delay his signing with a new team for a few weeks,” Rapoport added. The Titans paid Clowney $15 million on a one-year deal only to see him fail to record a single sack in eight games. Now a free agent, Clowney is unlikely to re-sign with Tennessee, though he said in February that he would be open to returning to the Titans. The veteran will likely sign a one-year, incentive-laden deal with another team this offseason. 

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 6:40 pm

I usually sit there

I have quite a nice cadre of friendly people there now

and Daytime TV is better than working

Plus Name and Plus Name
Plus Name and Plus Name
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 6:41 pm

I know a guy who works on cars so usually I just chill with him while he works. When I can’t do that, I’ll usually catch a ride from someone.

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  Plus Name and Plus Name
03/03/2021 6:46 pm

Yep if all day, a ride is a must….a lot of shops now offer free shuttle rides

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:03 pm

Small town here, but we drop it off and go home. They call when done and we go pick it up at our convenience.

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:10 pm

I would only have a little more than a mile walk, if I walked home

But, then I would have to walk back

No thank you

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:17 pm

I can burn a few thousand calories staring up the ladder to the roof I have to climb up and down a few times 🙁

I fell like Willie Roaf

I can for 6-10 seconds do anything and then stumble back to the huddle!

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:40 pm

Monday’s thru Wednesday, it also serves as the court house..😁

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 7:41 pm

Fridays it is the Gallows?

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:46 pm

No. We drop it off the night before, put the keys in the drop box, and go get it the next day.

pompano
Reply to  SCKSChief
03/03/2021 7:50 pm

not ideal…imo

SCKSChief
SCKSChief
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 9:58 pm

Better than sitting there all day and waiting. It is awesome, man.

slackator
slackator
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 8:27 pm

in my case no I dont walk home because 15 miles is a bit to far for my overweight lazy ass

pompano
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:07 pm

D. All of the above, depending.
Had to wait 2 weeks to replace an engine … rent is too damn high!

MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 7:24 pm

Some bigger places (mainly dealerships?) will actually give you a car to drive while yours is in the shop. Ask about a “Loaner car”.

slackator
slackator
Reply to  Tony Sommer
03/03/2021 8:26 pm

drop my car off, and have someone else pick me up to go back home or whatever until its ready

Plus Name and Plus Name
Plus Name and Plus Name
03/03/2021 6:38 pm

Having watched both Wilson and Lawrence play, I would say I was completely blown out of the water watching Lawrence play. He seemed as good as any college qb I had ever watched. Wilson has upside with some coaching for sure, but he is no Lawrence.

gonzangkc11
gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:13 pm

Looks like classic 80’s band are been mentioned below. Here’s one — close your ears if you are under 40 years old

or listen to Justin, Leave It To Beaver lol

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:14 pm

actually 70’s bands 🙂

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:16 pm

is that Angus?

gonzangkc11
gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:10 pm

I stopped reading after article said….
IS CHRIS SIMMS

or, I can finish the article
Is Chris Simms a coat-tailer = yes

Chris Simms = Dan Orlovsky = garbage cans

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:13 pm

seems odd, The draft is all about QB’s and I don’t remember all that much hoopla around Patrick Mahomes the season he was drafted

gonzangkc11
gonzangkc11
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 6:19 pm

maybe one 1 will be a winner QB – rest will be JAG

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  gonzangkc11
03/03/2021 6:20 pm

More a thought on when they had the next GOAT

no one saw that 🙂

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 6:00 pm
rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 6:02 pm

My god they were horrible…😊

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  rip58lovealways
03/03/2021 6:04 pm

pre-teens have no taste

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 5:49 pm

Good Evening AG

BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 5:46 pm

There’s already a once-in-a-generation QB in the league, and he plays for the Chiefs. Draft prospects will have to wait a generation before it’s their turn again.

Nasrani
Nasrani
03/03/2021 5:36 pm

Well let me tell ya, I got some news for you
And you’ll soon find out it’s true
And then you’ll have to eat your lunch all by yourself

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  Nasrani
03/03/2021 5:43 pm

No time to eat I’m in the fast lane…

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  Nasrani
03/03/2021 5:50 pm

And would you cry if I told you that I lied
And would you say goodbye, or would you let it ride?

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 5:55 pm

Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from a friend who
Heard it from another you been messin’ around
They say you got a boy friend
You’re up late every weekend
They’re talkin’ about you and it’s bringin’ me down

pompano
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:11 pm
steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:12 pm

Is this the Deshaun Watson thread?

pompano
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:14 pm

why? …what did you hear,?

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:20 pm

just Rumours

pompano
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:22 pm
steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:29 pm

Oh Well

Of Course

steve_chiefs
steve_chiefs
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:38 pm

Question Pompano

Music Maestro

Do certain chords induce different feelings in humans?

How does music create a mood or Do humans find music to fit the mood we are in?

pompano
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:42 pm

yes and yes and again yes

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  steve_chiefs
03/03/2021 7:44 pm

While I’m not aware of any research into the elements of music affecting emotions, on a less granular level, major keys vs minor keys do produce different ranges of emotion. Setting and situation also matter, such as religious hymns, a campfire singalong, or just rocking out with a buddy.

pompano
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 7:45 pm

so, yes

BleedingRedAndGold
Reply to  pompano
03/03/2021 7:58 pm

A yes, it’s true, but it’s a “yes”…with style!

My parents were both teachers, must be genetic.

pompano
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 9:05 pm

it’s also a lot of letters when 3 would suffice…
🙂

rip58lovealways
rip58lovealways
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
03/03/2021 6:06 pm

BTO had some great songs

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