In Defense of the Defense

 348 replies

What if I told you everything you think about Bob Sutton is wrong?  No, Bob Sutton, nor the defense,caused the Chiefs to lose against the Chargers in heartbreaking fashion on Thursday night.  What is easy to overlook after watching Philip Rivers score two touchdowns in the final five minutes of the game is that the defense actually played well. In the first half, when Eric Berry was on the field, I would even venture to say they played great.  With Berry in the mix Bob Sutton called a defense against the Chargers that resulted in three out of four Chargers possessions ending in a punt or interception.  In the first half of play the Chiefs defense tallied four sacks and two interceptions while allowing only seven points to a hot Chargers offense.  All said and done, the defense totaled five sacks and two interceptions while holding Philip Rivers to his lowest QBR of the season.  If I told you those stats before the game, I’m guessing you would have been very happy with them and assumed it resulted in a Chiefs victory.

No, the Chiefs defense did not cost the Chiefs this game.  Even without Berry in the second half, they only allowed a total of 29 points compared to the Chargers’ season average of 28.  This was not a case of your defense getting torched by a subpar offense.  The defense played well enough to win this game.  Right about now you might be wondering why we lost, since it wasn’t the defense’s fault.  Well guess what, its time we blame the offense.  The Chiefs have averaged close to 36 points a game this season and only managed to hang 28 on the Chargers.  The Chargers defense, while good, is not on the same level as the Ravens defense that held the Chiefs to 27 points in overtime just a week prior.

The offense under-delivered, and if you’re going to credit the head coach and quarterback for a win, they also must shoulder the burden of defeat.  Patrick Mahomes threw for a season low 243 yards against a passing defense allowing 225 yards per game on the season; we allowed our offense to play down to their defense’s level.  While Mahomes didn’t appear to suffer from the jitters and missed passes that plagued him earlier this year in prime time games, he didn’t quite look like the same quarterback we’ve watched all season take over games. 

While I agree with Andy Reid’s decision to run a 4-minute offense to end the game, his execution in play calling fell short.  Down to his 3rd string running back, I disagree with Andy calling a run play on 1st down against a team that knows you want to run the clock out to protect the lead, especially after seeing how poorly the offensive line had been holding up.  This would have been a perfect spot to pullout some trickery from that special reserve of plays I know Reid has.

That’s not to say all the blame falls on Mahomes and Reid.  The entire offense lacked the gleam we’re used to seeing.  For a second week in a row we’ve watched an offensive line that had been exceeding expectations all year turn into a sieve against the pass rush.  We also saw key drops and penalties stifle drives, as for the first time this season Mahomes was unable to make up for them with his right arm.  And a game where Damien Williams is your leading receiver is probably not going to result in the outcome you are hoping for.

The game against the Charger was decided on the Chiefs final drive.  Manage to grind out a 1st down with the 4-minute offense and bleed the clock out past the 2-minute warning while forcing the Chargers to use all their time outs and the Chiefs would protect their 28-21 lead. The result?  A 3 yard loss, a 5 yard pass, a false start penalty, and a sack. We gave Philip Rivers the ball with 2:37 remaining and two opportunities to stop the clock and he led them down the field to win the game.

So holster your pistols Arrowheadguys, Sutton is not the man you’re looking for.  At least not this week.

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CJ_Spiller
CJ_Spiller
12/18/2018 8:17 pm

Sometimes the obvious take is the correct one. The defense collapsed and allowed 15-points in 4:00.

Sure, a first down or two would’ve been nice but putting this loss on the offense is asinine.

Bob Sutton dialed up 9-straight 4-man, no-stunt, vanilla prevent defensive looks in the final drive. That cost the game more than anything else.

ChiefBlue_CFC
ChiefBlue_CFC
12/18/2018 1:15 pm

There is a lot of blame that can go around. From the offensive line to Andy’s questionable play calling. But this rides on the defense for the most part. The one person I don’t think it rides on at all, is Mahomes. Not sure you can blame him for this loss when he was the main reason we were even leading. Do we remember him escaping the pocket to his left and turning back to his right, ala week 3 against the 49ers, on third down and getting a first and extending the drive. Only for him to later throw a touchdown with a defender draped on him.

With this defense, Andy needs to treat the 50 to the opponents 35 yard line as 4 down territory. We punted on 4th & 3 when we were at around the 40ish yard line. We pinned them deep and 2 plays later the Chargers were at that spot already. Man, good thing we pinned them deep. He also should treat a 7 point lead with 4-6 minutes left in the game as a tie game. Our teams greatest strength is the offense, so it behooves this team to keep the offense out there as much as possible. Put the ball in Mahomes hand and let him go get the job done.

Andy is a great offensive coach, but he frustrates the bejesus out of me.

terribleterrible
terribleterrible(@terribleterrible)
Reply to  ChiefBlue_CFC
12/18/2018 9:03 pm

With the prowess of our offense I’d much prefer a boom or bust D than the current bend THEN break D. If Senile Sutton turns up the heat on the last drive and it doesnt get the stop or turnover, at least give the O the ball back with a little bit of time.

ChiefsF8hful
ChiefsF8hful(@chiefsf8hful)
12/18/2018 8:55 am

It wasn’t the Chargers last possession that killed us. It was their previous possession. Sutton allowed them to walk down the field, with long pass plays in what, about 1 1/2 minutes of time coming off the clock? Yeah, Reid’s penchant for going conservative offensively was definitely stupid but we should have been pinning our ears back on the Charger’s second to last possession and that’s where the game was lost.

KCChef
KCChef(@kcchef)
12/17/2018 11:19 pm

“There’s A Gleam, Men… ”

comment image?w=620

Falco16
Falco16
12/17/2018 10:16 pm

The offense had two major failures that are unacceptable. The lack of at least three points after the long kick return. Also not getting a first down in their last drive.

I don’t know how much to blame play calling and how much to blame the players. I’m a huge Mahomie, but this was a bad look.

That being said 14 point lead with under 5. The defense in the second half sucked balls.

I guess considering I’ve laid out to specific incidents that were the offenses fault. Paired with the miserable defense in the second half compounded by two horrendous penalties. (Ghost holding on Sorenson and ticky tack PI on Fuller) To “blame” the defense is lazy this loss took 53 players and a few refs to blow.

It all boils down to that as great as the offense has been our franchise QB is still a first year starter and it’s a shame that he isn’t getting support from the defense when he needs it.

This is he exact opposite of 2016 where the defense got no run support from the offense.

For me it is frustrating because I just started believing that the team had what it will take to make it through January. That belief was shattered Thursday night. For 10 weeks i said they have no defense so no SB no expectations. I woke up Thursday fully expecting to go to sleep a fan of the 2018 AFCW Champions. So when a very winnable game at HOME slips through their hands as it has for 6 straight home playoff games it’s hard not to think “Because Chiefs.”

BleedingRedAndGold
BleedingRedAndGold(@bleedingredandgold)
Reply to  Falco16
12/18/2018 1:23 am

I would argue that at times, the offense squandered the help the D gave them, and the SD game is a good example of that. A 3-and-out puts pressure on the D, due to lack of rest. It degrades the D’s play, in the long run of the game. So while you cut the D a bit of slack for the O’s failings, I think they deserve more. But then again, I don’t hold things like garbage time points & yards and the enhanced stats from teams playing risky because they are trying to catch up have to be mitigated too. Pointing to total allowed by the D doesn’t impress me unless the critic takes the time to honestly weigh the relevant factors. Which is why I got a bit snippy tonight with Big Red. I like the guy, don’t get me wrong, but if there are no positives to the D that are legitimate, then all you can have is an internet argument – and the salient point is that there are no w2inners in internet arguments, only losers, because dishonesty is integral to that game. So much so that Red was defending his use of fallacies as valid. I mean, WTF? But internet arguing is the bastard child of conspiracy theory “thinking”, and both actively make people dumber. Conspiracy thinking leads people to believe simultaneously that “there is no safe level fo0r a toxin” and pay premium prices for Pink Himalayan salt (not sourced from the Himalayas, BTW) that is, in fact, “contaminated” by quite a few toxins. None of them are in harmful quantities, mind you, but for the anti-toxin crowd to flock to it is telling. Much the same with those despicable (and I mean that) anti-vaxxers. They claim to lo0ve science and evidence, but if science and evide4nce go against their beliefs? Conspiracy. That shit puts lives at risk. Vaccines are safer than having a swimming pool in your back yard, but that doesn’t stop the red herrings from flying, like “vaccines are all full of mercury”, or “vaccines cause you to shed live viruses”.… Read more »

Falco16
Falco16
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
12/18/2018 7:15 am

I pointed to two times in the Chargers game where the offense did squander something.

So we agree you can’t just blame the defense, but Sutton needs to go. The defense is bad and while our talent might not be world beaters there is something missing and I believe it is coaching.

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  Falco16
12/18/2018 8:43 am

Im tired of the defense just getting a pass because they are “bad”. Fourteen games in and the cbs are still lining up out of position….. Have you seen anybody benched for that? If the old, slow veteran is out of position, why not play the faster up and comer and get him the experience? You can talk about Bob and say aww shucks its not his fault, but it is. Our blitzing has been pretty effective, why dont we do it more? Why doesnt he do any exotic blitzes anymore?

Now the Offense gets dinged because they “squandered” a couple of opportunities? Well you guys can believe that shit all you like, but if we had a really good D coordinator right now we would be undefeated.

soybon
soybon(@soybon)
12/17/2018 10:15 pm

At the time I totally blamed the offense, Er maybe 70-75% of the blame. My impression in the moment was that the playcalling became too predictable down the stretch… Andy got overly reliant on the screen game and we stopped challenging down field. Couple that with the drops, over throws and out of sync plays and bam, the O disappeared for stretches.

Falco16
Falco16
Reply to  soybon
12/17/2018 10:28 pm

I felt they took away the screen game I credit their defense for that. Our offense didn’t adjust.

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  Falco16
12/17/2018 10:57 pm

Chargers didn’t blitz a ton. Andy could’ve dialed up some shots. When you’re getting great pressure and dropping 7 in coverage, the QB’s job gets tough. I think Andy should’ve given his OTs some more help and set Mahomes up to take some shots. Slam that rookie running back into the line, here and there, and play-action pass.

hmills110
hmills110
12/17/2018 9:18 pm

KC offense and defense are both predicated on big plays, and not built to grind out wins. The offensive line is 2nd-rate, overall. They don’t really have a very physical presence in the middle, and Reid doesn’t give his tackles as much help as many of our opponents, who will max protect and give their receivers 5 seconds to get open.

Both Reid and Sutton will show a weak tendency, just to trap the other side into a mistake. Present the opponent with the same formation that got beat several times, before, but put a wrinkle in it, to wrong-foot the opponent and masnufacture splash plays. One turnover negates an 80-yard drive to the goal line. Meanwhile, Mahomes is still trying to find that balance between serenity and courage. I think falling TOO much under Andy’s system spell can cause a QB to make decisions that aren’t in line with the actual situation developing on the field. I think (hope) that Mahomes knows the difference and is always ready to create when things don’t go according to plan. Alex was a little too subservient to the system, as were McNabb and Vick, in my opinion.

I think the godawful protections and a couple drops, here and there, are frustrating Mahomes, somewhat, at this point, but you won’t hear a bad word out of him.

As for Sammy Watkins for $16 million a year, that deal will be CHEAP if it means that the KC offense is firing on all cylinders in January. They’re pretty good without Watkins on offense, but they’re SICK when he’s doing his thing, too. And no, it’s not as easy for Mahomes to tell, pre-snap, and the wins, outside aren’t as clear-cut AFTER the snap, without Watkins on the field.

Also, this thing is evolving, with Kelvin Benjamin joining the group. Conley’s been a sure-handed 3rd-down target when healthy. But he’s not a super explosive route-runner. His speed and his size will give you a window. Benjamin’s size always gives you a window, plus he’s really tough to hold up at the line.

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 9:50 pm

Just superficial analysis. I’m incapable of going any deeper. My football dick is very short.

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 9:52 pm

Have you seen my brother, Jake? He wears the same hat as me.

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  hmills110
12/18/2018 8:51 am

before this year, I really thought Conolly (sp?) would develop into something special. I think Im done with that train ride now. He is nothing special.

Watkins on the other hand completely changes this offense. Can we get him some bionic feet?

Jayhawks_6872
Jayhawks_6872
12/17/2018 8:42 pm

There are too many people with Stockholm Syndrome with this defense, sure you can’t put all of the blame on the defense or Bob Sutton, they probably shoulder about 90% of the blame for our losses, but our defense is literally the 2nd worst statistically. It has put us in more opportunities to lose games than win.

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  Jayhawks_6872
12/17/2018 10:22 pm

The defenses that are playing well, this year, are pretty shameless about bringing whatever pressure it takes to force you to beat them with quick stuff and screens. The best-run defenses are showing no respect and bringing heat. Some of the better defenses just have great d-line play and just flat beat you. I think KC’s one dominant defensive lineman away from Sutton getting what he wants (which is to send 4 all day).

I think Speaks and Kpass are true hybrid players and should be given hybrid roles, including some DE, with Nnadi and Jones. Nnadi’s an alpha dog, and he’s quick. If he can attack the arms of taller offensive linemen, I think he’s got a natural leverage advantage any time he can hand-fight and get inside their reach and get his hands on people.

I think the deadliest form of KC D is going to feature one of those permutations, WITH Ford and Houston. And behind those 5 guys I’d have EB29 surrounded by as much speed as Sutton can muster. DOD at ILB or 3 safeties. Anyway, that’d be my preferred grouping against 11 personnel. Sutton seems a little too attached to Bailey. I don’t think Bailey’s got the explosion you want in the modern NFL where he lines up.

bds955
bds955(@bds955)
Reply to  hmills110
12/18/2018 8:34 am

Rec for you Hmills. Jimmy Johnson’s philosophy was to fill the secondary with speed to get as many people in position to tackle. We need that same mentality.

Fozzyboyd
Fozzyboyd
12/17/2018 7:38 pm

So let me get this straight, a side of the ball that routinely performs below average, and did perform below average is less to blame than the side of the ball that routinely plays above average, and did play above average. This despite having a 2 td lead going into the last part of the 4th quarter and having way more injuries than the defense? I will agree, the offense should have done more on those last few drives but we are now expecting them to be perfect every game while giving the defense credit as long as they aren’t a dumpster fire. The 16th ranked defense gives up 22.7 ppg. We gave up nearly a TD more than that with 29 that night. Our offense scored nearly 6 points more than that. Even in the argument there is a double standard: The defense only gave up 29 but the offense only score 28. They are 1 point apart, how can they be that different on how bad or good they are. Also, the offense is beat to hell. We had 4 starters out that game (Hunt/Ware, Watkins, Erving, LDT). One of the other starters is on one leg in Hill. That’s 5 of 11 starters either not playing or hurt. On defense, we were perfectly healthy. I don’t think we had any starters out and we had our original starters at safety back including Berry. At worst, the defense was without 1 starter for half the game but otherwise completely healthy. While it can be said the offense should have done more to end the game, where was the defense when they needed a stop? They were busy giving up tds, busy giving up 14 points in 4 minutes to be the first team in years to do that. No, the offense could have been better but it was not the reason we lost this game. This is like saying there was a person I wanted to date, they were great, beautiful, smart, funny, great at everything, other than their HIV, Syphilis, Herpes, Genital Warts, and some mystery unknown… Read more »

Cheat Code
Cheat Code(@cheat-code)
Reply to  Fozzyboyd
12/18/2018 1:06 am

I’m ok with giving the offense a healthy share of the blame pie for Thursday’s loss. I’m not okay with saying the defense did an acceptable job in that game. Furthermore I’m even less ok with saying that Sutton hasn’t been a problem the last couple years and thus needs to be replaced with someone who is going to get more out of the talent we have.

StramtoReid
StramtoReid
12/17/2018 7:33 pm

If Alex Smith was the QB on the last drive, the AG would be ripping him a new asshole for not getting a first down. You guys are such trolls and Mahomes homers.
Football is a game of momentum, you just can’t flip a switch and stop a team when they got momentum going. We needed to stop the Chargers momentum with our offense moving the ball.
I love Sammy Watkins, for 16 million a year, we could have got a #2 receiver and a CB. I say we could have picked up an ilb for 3 or 4 million that plays better than Hitchens. That extra 5 million, we could have got another CB.
Veach screwed us over in free agency last year. If we want to be pissed off at the defense, be mad at Veach.
I agree there are times we go into the prevent defense after getting a lead and it pisses me off. We have had a chance to win every game.
I’ll take Mahomes over any QB in the league, and were a below 500 team this year with Alex, but, in our 3 loses,
1) PM#15 throws 2 interceptions against NE.
2) Rams 5 turnovers
3) Chargers, can’t get a first down on last drive.

If it wasn’t for Mahomes we would be undefeated, if it wasn’t for Mahomes were under 500. The defense has put us in a position to win in every game.

Fozzyboyd
Fozzyboyd
Reply to  StramtoReid
12/17/2018 7:40 pm

Meh, I was a huge critic of Smith but even like in the Colts game we gave up a 21 point lead I said the same thing then, the offense could have done more to stop that but its on the defense. Smith and Mahomes could have both done more or been better to end the game but when it comes down to it, that all falls on the defense and Sutton.

Jayhawks_6872
Jayhawks_6872
Reply to  StramtoReid
12/17/2018 8:02 pm

“If it wasn’t for Mahomes we would be undefeated, if it wasn’t for Mahomes were under 500. The defense has put us in a position to win in every game.” Lmao dude what? You’re trying to defend a defense that is legitimately the 2nd worst defense in regards to yards and points. Just admit it the defense is a dumpster fire and the only reason we are in 1st place is because Mahomes, if we had Smith we’d be barely above .500

Jayhawks_6872
Jayhawks_6872
Reply to  Jayhawks_6872
12/17/2018 8:08 pm

You’re also forgetting that Mahomes is essentially still a rookie and you’re no spoiled with how well he plays, if this was his 2nd or 3rd year legitimately starting then yeah you could put the rams and pats game on Mahomes but he’s still a rookie

backbone313
backbone313(@backbone313)
Reply to  Jayhawks_6872
12/17/2018 8:31 pm

Kinda like Goff laying another egg on SUNDAY night. Dude is a 3 year starter

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  backbone313
12/17/2018 8:39 pm

Dak Prescott also laid an egg on Sunday.

Fire_FG_the_moron
Fire_FG_the_moron(@fire_fg_the_moron)
Reply to  StramtoReid
12/17/2018 10:58 pm

comment image

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  StramtoReid
12/18/2018 8:59 am

Does negative 5 get you banned? That is a horrible take.

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  StramtoReid
12/18/2018 5:25 pm

I see what you’re saying about Mahomes. You’re wrong about the defense, though: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread(@arrowspread)
12/17/2018 6:52 pm

I was certainly more annoyed by our lackluster offensive performance, having been gifted two turnovers by the defense.

But healthy Eric Berry being on the sidelines for that series to me is inexcusable. You ask em if he can go.. If he says yes you play him. And then you win the game.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  ArrowSpread
12/17/2018 6:54 pm

Or at the very least, if you know he’s only playing 1 half, play him the second half.

Leaf
Leaf(@leaf)
Reply to  ArrowSpread
12/17/2018 7:01 pm

Annoyed, yes. Concerned? Not at the moment. We know this isn’t what they normally are. Unfortunately, second half collapses are all too normal for Bob.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread(@arrowspread)
Reply to  Leaf
12/17/2018 8:22 pm

I don’t think Bob has been given the best personnel to work with.

All of our able safeties are backups or flat out shouldn’t be on a team (Parker), except for Berry now. We got three slot corners, a high paid ILB that can’t cover much of anything.. And a Coordinator that can’t coordinate around those missing pieces, or coach basic things like positioning and spacing. I’m also wondering if Emmitt Thomas needs to go. Cuz that’s on position coaches also.

Leaf
Leaf(@leaf)
Reply to  ArrowSpread
12/17/2018 10:43 pm

Is that a Bobcuses? I admit that Bob hasn’t had an all pro line up, but he’s been collapsing games for six years, and is not like we’ve been completely devoid of talent.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread(@arrowspread)
Reply to  Leaf
12/17/2018 11:00 pm

It’s not an excuse.. It’s just.. Is that not true?

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread(@arrowspread)
Reply to  ArrowSpread
12/17/2018 11:45 pm

It got down voted by somebody, but that somebody ain’t respondin

hmills110
hmills110
Reply to  Leaf
12/17/2018 11:01 pm

They’re not getting the December contributions from their two 2nd-rounders, Speaks and Kpass. Kpass didn’t even suit up Sunday. I saw the logic in acquiring two such players, but they haven’t gotten much from either one.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread(@arrowspread)
Reply to  hmills110
12/17/2018 11:02 pm

Hey Mills, fix your face!

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  ArrowSpread
12/18/2018 9:08 am

Hitchens was really good in Dallas when he didnt have to read and react. We get great pressure on the QB from multiple positions. We had a solid CB that we traded for a bag of chips (mandated by the owner) I’ll admit that our backfield has been a hot mess, but I see Bob trot out the same guys (when there appears to be better younger options here that he refuses to play) And then for the most part plays cover 2 man under all game.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
12/17/2018 6:38 pm

I actually agree to a point Tony. I do blame the offense, especially that terrible playcalling on our last drive. But I also blame Sutton. Why? Exactly because we DIDN’T have Berry. That was not a surprise to Sutton, he knew it; and should have known he needed to be more aggressive to make up for his absence.

I understand your defense of Bob because I am not nearly as far down on him as most here, missing EB is HUGE. The upgrade in pass and run defense with him in the game is startling and shows he is worth every penny we pay him. But to deflect all blame from Sutton is a step too far, I’ve seen that damn prevent defense my whole life and it has always sucked no matter the coach or player.

If we are winning the game then KEEP doing what was winning! I’ll never understand the thought process of playing it safe; on either offense or defense.

KC Dude (A.K.A Zif)
Reply to  SPI Chief
12/17/2018 6:57 pm

It is conventional wisdom. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t actually work. These coaches have had it beaten into their heads since day one that when nursing a two score lead you always go prevent. Look how many do it. I would venture to say about 3/4 of the DC’s go prevent with a two score lead in the 4th quarter.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  KC Dude (A.K.A Zif)
12/17/2018 7:02 pm

That is exactly the problem, conventional wisdom. And we have older coaches who are steeped in that philosophy except for Bienemy who is a Reid disciple. My point is, with us being at least a year ahead of schedule, we need to go with a completely unconventional philosophy and throw everything at the wall

Patomic Fist
Patomic Fist(@patomic)
Admin
12/17/2018 6:37 pm

What’s the plan to retort Tony’s article? Can anyone here step up with a good fan post rebuttal?

KC Dude (A.K.A Zif)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 6:54 pm

Fine. Doo doo face!!!

Leaf
Leaf(@leaf)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 7:21 pm

comment image

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  Patomic Fist
12/17/2018 6:39 pm

Well I sent him one, but I’m not sure he liked it. And it really wasn’t that much a retort to his comments, because in general he is right

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 6:42 pm

Well defend it for me because I’m stuck at work at that hour.

John Doerty
John Doerty(@tsv0728)
Reply to  Patomic Fist
12/17/2018 6:51 pm

Seth did it for us 🙂

Leaf
Leaf(@leaf)
Reply to  Patomic Fist
12/17/2018 7:19 pm

For the game? Nah. Bob wasn’t the sole culprit, so Tony’s criticism is valid. For Bob? That’s easy. Bob Sutton is the Alex Smith of DCs. Good enough to keep you in most games and not cost you, and if stacked with enough talent, he sometimes looks like he might actually be good. But once things start to go bad, he goes all deer in the head lights and completely collapses. And when the games get bigger, these limitations become glaringly apparent.

Fire_FG_the_moron
Fire_FG_the_moron(@fire_fg_the_moron)
Reply to  Patomic Fist
12/17/2018 11:03 pm

Which unit is on the field when Chargers score?
Thats who shoulders the blame. As Belicheat would say…
DO YOUR JOB.

End of rebuttal.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater(@denverdonkeyhater)
12/17/2018 6:27 pm

I was listening 610. Carrington was arguing with shawn barber. Carrington was like “did you think that we could stop Phylis, because I didn’t” and barber responded with “Yes, I thought Houston was going to strip sack him”.

This is exactly how I feel about this defense. They have pass rushers but they can’t stop shit unless it’s a turnover. A sack doesn’t do squat because the other team will just convert on 2nd or 3rd down.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater(@denverdonkeyhater)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 6:58 pm

It’s the one I can get through the company WiFi at work

Fire_FG_the_moron
Fire_FG_the_moron(@fire_fg_the_moron)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 11:05 pm

I dont listen to anything. Radio out here is 24/7 Christmas music. Nothing else comes in.

4thQtrMagic
4thQtrMagic(@4thqtrmagic)
12/17/2018 6:25 pm

I would be interested to see how the offensive line graded out. Missing two starting guards has to hurt offensive output.

legal_kush
legal_kush
12/17/2018 6:18 pm

Try even contesting a two-point conversion, please, before drooling over Bob’s sparkling C.V.

Yes, a couple first downs up seven would have been nice. But no, you can’t put this on the offense. They scored a TD on 4/8 possessions.. Go check that against how many teams EVER since the DAWN OF TIME have coughed up a 14 point lead at home with four minutes left.

BigBill
BigBill(@bigbill)
Reply to  legal_kush
12/17/2018 6:31 pm

Pathetic that our DBs can’t figure out who to cover on a 2pt conversion. They had a lot of problems figuring out who to cover throughout the game. EB had to field general the other DBs. 15 games into the season and can’t figure out who to cover….

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  BigBill
12/17/2018 6:37 pm

That blew the gasket for me. That was the last thread. Heck, LAC had like 7.5 minutes better TOP…. even if we get half that back it’s two more drives for the offense.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  legal_kush
12/17/2018 6:41 pm

Remember these are all players who just got here this year…and no field general in Berry. Blown coverage’s happen unfortunately

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  SPI Chief
12/17/2018 6:55 pm

I have made that argument. New players, takes time. No.
Covering a route in the end zone on a game-deciding play is not optional. Pathetic as is, this defense put itself in that position in the first place.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  legal_kush
12/17/2018 7:05 pm

Yes they did put themselves in that position, but you have to admit they got pretty lucky with some of those calls on that last drive. And blown coverage happen quite often, they made a mistake, but again….when did we pick up Scandrick?

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  SPI Chief
12/17/2018 7:28 pm

Scrandrick came off the trash heap in training camp, IIRC. Here’s the thing. I’ve been the guy that has supported and apologized for Bob for a very long time. Sacrificing Scandrick for lack of talent and brains is another crutch for Bob. Maybe, just maybe, if Scandrick hadn’t just put himself in position to seal an earlier loss by holding on to a game-winning pick, I’d be right there giving him a pass. No. Not any more.

But Fuller bears responsibility too. He could have at least chased seeing the mess up at the line, but chose to run away from it towards the post and then jump up and down as if it wasn’t his fault, oh no! Not sure …

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 6:52 pm

This is an excuse.
Philip Rivers, postgame, said they ran the same play to the other side earlier. I don’t see how that supports our defense being remotely able.

Aa for showing the defense called to being insufficient, well, Imma go look right now.

IrezumiChief
IrezumiChief(@irezunichief)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 7:07 pm

Isn’t it Bob’s job to make sure players know their assignment? Seems like a lot of people resort to the “chicken or the egg first” with this discussion. If we are this far into the season, Bob should have everyone knowing their assignments. If Fuller (or anyone on defense) doesn’t know their assignment, then it is Bob’s job to not have them on the field for things they don’t know. Any way you slice it, it falls on Bob….

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 7:14 pm

Then turn back to where you know the guy is, flop, and grab you hammy fercrissakes. Do it for Bob.

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 7:10 pm

Well, Fuller spoke directly to Scandrick, so, in Week 15 Scandrick blows off his assignment and free-lances by double-covering a dude at the stripe, knowing his assignment is jogging in empty space in the corner of the end zone?
That is supposed to make it all “meh?”

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  legal_kush
12/17/2018 7:13 pm

Frankly, it may have been Fuller that blew it, which is more troubling!

legal_kush
legal_kush
Reply to  legal_kush
12/17/2018 7:06 pm

Fuller was on the inside.
Scandrick let a receiver run past him.
Are you saying he thought he had help?
Not buying it. Should never have gotten to that point, but it did.

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/18/2018 9:22 am

So we’re going to play this game again in the offseason? Bob didnt have pro bowlers at all positions so how can we expect him to field a middle of the pack D? Give it a rest. Id venture a guess we have better Defensive talent then most of the other bottom 10 teams in D

dpb
dpb(@dpb)
12/17/2018 6:15 pm

Guess this is as good a place as any…

Marcus Peters g checkin fans ?
This is exactly how it should be pic.twitter.com/BD22876foV

— Hog Maw Athletics (@hogmawathletics) December 17, 2018

Patomic Fist
Patomic Fist(@patomic)
Admin
Reply to  dpb
12/17/2018 6:30 pm

I don’t have a problem with it.

Fire_FG_the_moron
Fire_FG_the_moron(@fire_fg_the_moron)
Reply to  Anthony Stratton
12/17/2018 11:11 pm

Yes, its America and EVERYONE is offended or butt hurt about something. I still blame the defense, and the NFL’s pro-LA agenda dictating outcomes of games along the way.

BleedingRedAndGold
BleedingRedAndGold(@bleedingredandgold)
12/17/2018 5:55 pm

Mentioned this elsethread, but I think it deserves it’s own spot:

If the 1st half was any indicator of the future, having Berry out there changes the D by quite a bit. Presuming he plays the rest of the way, that throws all the pre-Berry stats into question. Their predictive value takes a dive, and certainly aren’t something to be confident about.

As well consult factory specifications on a ‘Stang that’s had its 289 swapped with a 351C. Changed the engine, changed the performance, so the factory specs are obsolete. And yeah, I think Berry makes a big difference too, so the same applies, and to some significant degree. JMNSHO

HawaiiFiveOh
HawaiiFiveOh(@hawaiifiveoh)
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
12/17/2018 6:10 pm

That’s the disappointing thing. Berry yelling at guys for being out of position this late in the season shows how bad things are. One player should not be so important to a defense. It’s like there’s one guy on the field not playing with blinders on? C’mon. That’s a problem for the entire leadership, from position coaches not teaching the fucking position all the way up to Veach for drafting/signing players who aren’t the right fit.

BleedingRedAndGold
BleedingRedAndGold(@bleedingredandgold)
Reply to  HawaiiFiveOh
12/17/2018 6:30 pm

One player shouldn’t? True, I agree with you that one player /shouldn’t/ be that important, but on any team you’ll find several who are, starting with the QBs, but extending to the D side, as well. So that’s reality for ya. I could probably pick one guy off most Ds whose loss would significantly degrade the unit’s play. So could you, if you stopped to think about it. For us, Berry’s one of those guys.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  BleedingRedAndGold
12/17/2018 6:43 pm

Our Defensive QB…and sorely missed obviously

KC Dude (A.K.A Zif)
Reply to  SPI Chief
12/17/2018 6:50 pm

And prior to that it was DJ. That was part of the reason I was for bringing DJ back. He may be a lot slower now, but he ain’t Ragland/Hitchens slow. During the period of when the Faiders cut him and when we got Berry back I bet DJ would have made a world of difference.

SPI Chief
SPI Chief(@spi-chief)
Reply to  KC Dude (A.K.A Zif)
12/17/2018 6:53 pm

Those two being gone, even with DJ’s decline, was a huge blow to this team.

BleedingRedAndGold
BleedingRedAndGold(@bleedingredandgold)
Reply to  SPI Chief
12/17/2018 7:18 pm

More than that. I wouldn’t have been surprised if I’d learned that when the decisions on cuts to be made, they decided to go with Berry calling adjustments – and also mentoring/grooming an understudy, as it worked out, Watts woulda been that guy. But in the eventuality, Berry wasn’t available and then Watts got hurt.

If, and remember, this is purely speculative; if the decision-making group had made that decision based on the things I mentioned, then yeah it was something of a risk, but not a horridly bad one. Berry’s Haglund’s Deformity wasn’t an issue at the time (and in any event, was unrelated to the Achilles’ injury on his other leg), and wasn’t foreseeable.

But if the plan was to have Berry calling adjustments and doing on-field coaching/mentoring, then the bone spur wrecked the plan. And it was all the worse because Berry’s return simply couldn’t be forecast. If RB’d been on IR since Game 3, say, things would have been handled differently.

With all that in mind, I’m not sure a “average/mediocre DC” could have necessarily done better, and as an assertion I consider it to be more wishful thinking than informed opinion based on solid facts and reasoning. The cherry-picked statistics are a give-away of the former, not the latter (but the D only has bad stats, comes the cry). Untrue.

Furthermore, the O can, and has put the D behind the proverbial 8-ball quite a number of times. Losing on the TOP stat’s more on the O than the D, this year. Our guys need rest, too, and they haven’t always been getting much.

BigBill
BigBill(@bigbill)
Reply to  HawaiiFiveOh
12/17/2018 6:33 pm

Agreed^

Scallywag
Scallywag
Reply to  HawaiiFiveOh
12/18/2018 9:27 am

You dont think Bob has any input in player acquisition?

KC15
KC15(@kc15)
12/17/2018 5:52 pm

When Berry has only played a little more than a full game the last two years I think it’s fair to expect more from bob. Missing one guy is no excuse to be incompetent for the better part of two years. It’s your job as a coach to put players in position to succeed.

With cutting Hunt, injuries to ware, Watkins, a depleted offensive line, and hill running around on one foot we still expect Andy Reid and the offense to put up 35 points. One guy goes down on defense and they’re allowed to be the worst in the league. That last offense position was ugly, but the defense had multiple opportunities to pick the offense up for one time this season and they couldn’t get it. Bob doesn’t put his guys in the secondary in positions to succeed based on their skill set, and that’s why this team gets torched the way it does. You have to coach your guys up and make it work

HockeyWinger
HockeyWinger(@hockeywinger)
12/17/2018 5:32 pm

comment image

😛

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