Morning Huddle – Wednesday:

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Good morning Chiefs Kingdom! Grab yourself a cup o’ Joe and get in the Huddle!

Chiefs news for October 13, 2021

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Good morning AG! Today in history, In 1969 The Chiefs and Oilers combined for 14 fumbles. Chiefs won 20-0 in a “Frog-strangler”. This years team may break that record by themselves…

Chiefs WR Byron Pringle offers terse remarks after Week 5 loss to Bills | usatoday

“We just need to find a way to be great,” Pringle said of the vibe in the locker room. “We want to get back to ourselves.”

NFL power rankings, Week 6: Chiefs, Browns make room for Cowboys, Chargers climbs | yahoo

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-power-rankings-week-6-124730684.html

The Kansas City Chiefs and Cleveland Browns both faced some stiff competition in Week 5 in the Buffalo Bills and Los Angeles Chargers, respectively.

At the end of the day, a loss is still a loss. In falling short, those two made room for a couple of teams to climb a little higher in the top-10 of our latest power ranking poll heading into Week 6.

Report: Chiefs have ‘looked into’ trade for Colts RB Marlon Mack | usatoday

“The feeling around Indianapolis is the Colts want to do right by running back Marlon Mack, who has requested a trade, but there is not much interest just yet. Things could pick up closer to the deadline, and a conditional late-round pick probably gets it done.

. . .

Meanwhile, the Kansas City Chiefs have looked into Mack, too. Clyde Edwards-Helaire is expected to miss extended time because of a knee injury suffered Sunday, so perhaps they add Mack to pair with Darrel Williams and Jerick McKinnon.”

Chiefs HC Andy Reid comments on Patrick Mahomes’ recent string of turnovers | yahoo

https://sports.yahoo.com/chiefs-hc-andy-reid-comments-163622839.html

Pat’s wired like a linebacker. That’s his thinking, he wants to get after you every snap, so he tries to maximize each play,” Reid explained. “I think what he’s saying is that there’s a time and a place for that. Sometimes you can try so hard that you do something that you normally wouldn’t do.

Chiefs reportedly re-sign Elijah McGuire for running back depth | kshb

https://www.kshb.com/sports/report-chiefs-re-sign-elijah-mcguire-for-running-back-depth

The Chiefs placed McGuire on injured reserve Aug. 17 then reached an injury settlement Aug. 26, which allowed him to become a free agent.

McGuire, who last played in the NFL in 2018, spent time on Kansas City’s practice squad each of the last two seasons.

Film study: Why is the Chiefs’ defense an abject disaster? | usatoday

However, most observers didn’t expect to see the Chiefs’ steep regression on the defensive side of the ball this season.

The Front Office and Coaching Staff Have Derailed the Chiefs Season | zonecoverage

Their biggest weakness is evident right now, with the defense off to a horrific start. It’s more than just bad. Frankly, it’s historic. Through five weeks, the defense is surrendering 7.1 yards per play, which is the highest-ever number allowed by an NFL team, according to Pro Football Reference.

But wait, it gets better. The best offense of the past 20 years is undoubtedly the 2007 New England Patriots, who averaged 3.3 points per drive — the exact same amount of points per drive the Chiefs’ defense is allowing through five weeks. Simply put, this years’ defense is turning opposing offenses into the greatest offense our generation has ever seen every week.

Chiefs announce slew of roster moves on Tuesday | usatoday

After suffering an MCL sprain in the Week 5 loss to the Buffalo Bills, the Chiefs have sent former first-round draft pick Clyde Edwards-Helaire to injured reserve. He’s expected to miss 2-3 weeks with his injury, but his placement on injured reserve guarantees he’ll be out for at least three weeks.

In a corresponding move, the Chiefs signed RB Derrick Gore to the 53-man roster. A preseason standout in Kansas City, Gore managed 18 carries for 86 yards and six receptions for 82 yards and a touchdown for the Chiefs during the preseason this year. He’ll be the No. 3 running back behind Darrel Williams and Jerick McKinnon for the time being.

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probablyamistake
probablyamistake
10/13/2021 5:19 pm

zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  probablyamistake
10/13/2021 5:22 pm

I’m in for $1

zulu trader
zulu trader
10/13/2021 2:56 pm

John Elway . . .

The Broncos’ Hall of Famer might be one of professional football’s greats, but he’s also known for his poor investment decisions, particularly when he was lured into a Ponzi scheme in 2010.

Elway and his partner in a car business lost $15 million by investing in a so-called “hedge fund” run by Sean Mueller.

Elway also made headlines in 2016 for reportedly missing out on a “fortune”. He was offered a 10% stake in the Denver Broncos for $15 million with the option to buy another 10% by forgoing his deferred salary of about $21 million. There were other perks and he had option of selling his stake back for more money after a few years if he was not satisfied with the deal. Elway did not take the deal.

ABC News said the stake would’ve been worth $388 million when adjusted for inflation in 2016.

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 4:56 pm

I saw an interview where Elway was laughing at himself for one of his stupid investments – a luxury laundromat. So, a laundromat for people who have extra money laying around, but who for some reason don’t want to use it to buy their own washer and dryer.

upamtn
10/13/2021 12:33 pm

ok, Sunday the Chiefs take on WFT … as horrendous as this team has looked, if they can’t (don’t) beat WFT they have more issues than any of us can imagine

Chiefs (SHOULD) win in a blowout

zulu trader
zulu trader
10/13/2021 12:25 pm

EBienemy is Las Vegas favorite to be next Raiders head coach at +600

SuperMegaChief
SuperMegaChief
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 1:19 pm

This is probably going to be downvoted into oblivian, but I haven’t been impressed with our offense ever since EB became our OC. I thought we would have had a better run game with him but we didn’t. I thought our offense was more dynamic with Pederson and Nagy. If he goes to Vegas, I’m not going to worry.

MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  SuperMegaChief
10/13/2021 2:42 pm

I maybe agree because I don’t know how much of the offense is actually EB’s doing. I feel like it’s Andy Reid’s offense and he holds the play card during the game.

I hope EB stays here, but I am also not afraid of him as a head coach.

SuperMegaChief
SuperMegaChief
Reply to  MasterChief
10/13/2021 3:13 pm

That’s fair. Nobody really know how much play calling is done by our OC’s. But assuming that they were all utilized the same way, I still believe our offense has been worse as of with EB as OC. But like you said, who really knows?

zulu trader
zulu trader
10/13/2021 11:11 am

anybody who dies from covid, when they have the vaccine is a dumb mf’er. I’m all in for less dumb mf’ers in the world. So let’s everybody take off their masks and spread covid and there will be less dumb mf’ers in the world. I’m all for it.

Last edited 12 days ago by zulu trader
ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 11:26 am

The funny thing is over 99% don’t die from it so this plan isn’t going to put much of a dent in things. I do agree with you if you are a high-risk person then you should be getting it. However, for the others like myself, I don’t see a need for it.

zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 12:12 pm

if you catch covid and die you are one of the aforementioned

God’s speed

AndyReidStach
AndyReidStach
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 1:06 pm

Does your statement include children?

MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 2:50 pm

The vaccination lowers risk of getting it and passing it along.

It’s one thing if you take precautions and still get it or pass it. At least you tried.

It’s another thing if you refuse vaccination and masking and social distancing. It makes you another link the the chain that has killed over 700,000 Americans. Congrats to those people for killing more Americans than all of WW2 and several other wars combined.

KCChef
KCChef
Reply to  MasterChief
10/13/2021 3:53 pm

Plus You Are Endangering The Human Population By Inviting the Creation of Virus Hosts For It Mutate In … Possibly Into One A Vaccine Wouldn’t ( or Less Effectively Combat ) … Anything Less Than Doing ALL you Can ( Masks, Social Distancing, Avoiding Congregate Settings & GETTING YOUR FREE, EFFECTIVE Non-Hospital Overwhelming Vaccination ) seems Criminally Negligent / Suicidal to Most Of Us On Earth 1 … 700,000 + is an Insane Cost in Human Souls …We Have Over a Thousand People A Day DYING From This … If You Heard of 4 Jumbo Jets Carrying Over 250 People A Day Colliding In Mid Air , EVERY SINGLE F***ing Day,Killing Everyone On Board …Would You Line Up To Get On One ? …’Cuz By Refusing A Free & Effective Vaccine , Your Getting Your Boarding Pass AND Whipping A Monkey Wrench Into The Engine Cowling Of The Next Plane On The Tarmac IMO …

KCChef
KCChef
Reply to  KCChef
10/13/2021 3:57 pm

Long Story Short – Don’t Be The Horse That Dies of Thirst At The Water Trough… & For Everyone’s Sake,Don’t Be The One To Foul It For The Rest Of Us …

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 2:48 pm

I personally know multiple people that have died even after receiving the shot. Your statement is as dumb as you sound.

zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  Maw423
10/13/2021 2:51 pm

multiple people who have died after receiving the shot

you sir, are a liar

Last edited 12 days ago by zulu trader
MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 3:24 pm

He may not be. In my county in CA, they are reporting vaccinated infections and deaths, they are just at much a lower rate.

Plus, I assume, there are people out there with poor immune systems that just aren’t strong enough to survive, even when vaccinated.

Still, those who choose not to get it and also choose not to wear masks and distance themselves… are dicks and are screwing over the rest of us.

zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  MasterChief
10/13/2021 3:28 pm

He’s a fuckin’ liar

MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  zulu trader
10/13/2021 3:29 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  zulu trader
10/14/2021 4:46 am

And you are an ignorant piece of shit.

KCChef
KCChef
Reply to  Maw423
10/13/2021 3:58 pm

What Part of 85 % Effective Eludes You ? … I’m Guessing The 15 % …

Budahmon
Budahmon
Reply to  KCChef
10/13/2021 5:53 pm

It’s not that effective though over time. As far as your take on it evolving to defeat what protection a vaccine gives, that is not how viral evolution works. A leaky vaccine has more impact than unvaccinated. Naturally a virus will mutate toward more virulence than mortality.

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  KCChef
10/14/2021 4:47 am

Probably the 99.7% survival rate without an experimental drug.

EAFOX
10/13/2021 11:03 am

Perhaps the vaccine is what will spread the Walking Dead virus or will render humans mute as the world is taken over by the bloody apes. For BRAG – IF I can still talk when the apes take over, I wonder if I can get them to go easy on me since we are related!!!

EAFOX
10/13/2021 11:01 am

Here is the simple difference – Tell me to wear a mask – fine. Follow the other guidelines – fine. I may or may not agree but if they want to implement these for protection is well within their right. Same concept as putting metal detectors at schools and airports and such. None of those include me injecting something into my body – women – abortion – their body – same philosophy here. AND you are not allowed to ask someone’s age or sexual preference at the school setting but you can mandate that they get the vaccine and show proof that you did. If the pandemic is still that dangerous, maybe we all should still be working at home.

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
10/13/2021 10:46 am

A lively vaccination debate this morning. Any place that mandates a vaccine needs to enforce it from top to bottom, otherwise it is just lip service. Requiring teachers and other faculty to get it, but still allowing students to sit in the rooms side by side unvaccinated doesn’t do any good. They are just making a mandate for appearances. (Or more likely to cover their asses if a teacher dies of Covid) Their timing is bad for a few reasons: The FDA is getting ready to approve the vaccine for kids as young as five. Now not all parents will rush out and vaccinate them, but even one third of the eligible kids would slow the spread significantly. There is now a highly effective treatment pill for Covid. And this is the main problem. Everybody tries to pretend to be vaccination expert. And nobody listens to the other sides arguments. Here is the stone cold hard truth. We don’t know the long term effects of this new vaccine on our bodies. We don’t know the long term effects of Covid on our bodies. Both are too new to understand what could happen in twenty years inside of us. An article was published last week that said Covid can affect your body in way ls that trigger complications regulating blood sugar like diabetes. It may reverse over time, but they don’t know yet. It is only rational to think the vaccine could have the same complications but we just don’t have enough data yet. So here is my summation. Everyone needs to look at what data is available. We know a lot of the problems Covid causes in the now. If you feel you would rather take a chance and get vaccinated, not knowing exactly what might happen in the future. Do it. If you feel the vaccine poses more risk than reward then don’t get it. But people on both sides need to respect the decision the other side makes. If you get vaccinated, you are protected from the disease the same as if everyone was vaccinated. And once it… Read more »

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  Severely Concussed
10/13/2021 11:25 am

Agree 100% with enforcement. Though coming from working in a school, I can tell you that it’s far easier to mandate vaccines for your staff/employees than it is for students. The laws that require public schools to service everyone regardless make it harder to say for students to “get vaccinated or get out” until it’s available for everyone and there’s some precedent to give legal cover. What treatment pill are you referring to? I know there’s some treatments that have shown potential to be legitimate treatment options, but I don’t think there’s anything that has been universally accepted by medical professionals. And as far as I know, while some of these drugs may prevent death or extremely serious illness, I don’t know that there’s anything that mitigates the risk of long-term COVID effects. I certainly don’t think I’m a vaccination expert, which is why I listen to those who are. Being a doctor doesn’t necessarily make you an expert in epidemiology any more than being in IT makes me an expert web developer (believe me, you don’t want me anywhere near your website). I just think it’s foolish for lay people to assume they can interpret data as well as the professionals do. I think that when it’s my end users trying to tell me what their IT problem is, and I still think that when I hear anti-vaccine people try to explain how epidemiologists don’t know what they’re talking about. “It is only rational to think the vaccine could have the same complications….” Why would this be the case? The vaccine isn’t using a live virus, so I certainly wouldn’t expect it to have similar long-term repercussions as getting COVID. I think questions about the potential long-term effects of the vaccine are valid (though not compelling to me personally when weighed against the known effects of COVID itself), but I don’t think this is the argument that should be made to make that point. I’m certainly not in favor of government mandates as a general rule. But as the libertarian mantra goes, some variation of “your liberty ends where… Read more »

probablyamistake
probablyamistake
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 11:50 am

It’s not just the effects of the virus itself on our society, it’s also the collateral damage. Our healthcare system and workers have been stretched to their limit. We have people leaving the profession because of the emotional strain caused by virus and the lack of support from our society. People have died from something else because there were no hospital beds available because of the unvaccinated. Now we have people crying “liberty” and threatening revolt because scientist even suggest mandates. The reaction from the right has been the most pathetic, un-american response to a threat I have ever seen in this country. They are even willing to put our children at risk.

Last edited 12 days ago by probablyamistake
upamtn
Reply to  probablyamistake
10/13/2021 12:06 pm

this this this this this times a bazillion …

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  probablyamistake
10/13/2021 2:54 pm

This pandemic is so dangerous that we’ll fire an impact full percentage of the Healthcare workforce in the middle of it.

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  probablyamistake
10/13/2021 5:12 pm

The right and the left are both un-American, because both extremes are equally authoritarian.

American is to make up your own mind, to deal with the consequences of having your own mind, to not allow others to make up your mind for you, and to never be bullied by anybody.

It’s also pretty godamned un-American to use other people’s children as an excuse to bully other people.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake
Reply to  Berserker
10/13/2021 7:28 pm

Agree. These dumb ass republican governors should stop using school children as political pawns. And spare me the rugged individualism BS. It’s boring as hell.

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  probablyamistake
10/25/2021 12:58 pm

It’s not BS. And if you’re bored by the thought of having to look after yourself, then go thank a cop or a soldier, because you could use a reminder of why you can choose not to be one of those.

larch
Reply to  Severely Concussed
10/13/2021 1:22 pm

Inconsistencies in the delivery and enforcement are a problem made more challenging by the attempt to balance individual rights with the common good. As for educating ourselves about the vaccine: absolutely yes, I have certain allergies and I made sure to be aware of the ingredients, and a cousin has the same kind of situation, it turned out I was okay so I got vaxxed but she was not so she remains necessarily unvaxxed.

Last edited 12 days ago by larch
SuperMegaChief
SuperMegaChief
10/13/2021 10:31 am

I’m not sure why we would need a running back when we need a defense. I know there has to be defensive players available but a running back isn’t going to fix our issues. Generating QB pressure and stopping the run would be a priority. Is there anyone out there that would be any help?

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  SuperMegaChief
10/13/2021 10:49 am

We need a safety signed off the street. And we need to find an end to be part of the rotation. I think it would be preferable to find a quick first step designated pass rusher, because all our current end are all around defenders.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  Severely Concussed
10/13/2021 11:36 am

We just need prime Derrick Johnson and Justin Houston, and we’d be good to go.

upamtn
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 12:10 pm

We just need prime Derrick Johnson and Justin Houston

oh, then we need to go back in time …

comment image

upamtn
Reply to  Severely Concussed
10/13/2021 12:07 pm

We need a safety signed off the street

how about this guy?

comment image

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed
Reply to  upamtn
10/13/2021 12:10 pm

He is at least in the right position for his assignment, unlike other safeties I have seen.

upamtn
10/13/2021 9:52 am

ok, so …

*you don’t want to pay taxes but you do want to use public roads
*you don’t want to get vaxed or wear a mask but you do tell others what they should do
*you want complete freedom to do (or not do) as you wish but for yourself not others

sorry gang, way too much insanity on this … seriously, for those of you who don’t give a rat’s about anyone else and you don’t want to wear a mask (they work, simple as that) and you don’t want to get a vaccination because it’s “your business what you do” well that’s fine, but don’t get upset when someone else DOES wear a mask … more so, when you’re asked to wear a mask at a restaurant or store: that’s not YOUR decision, it’s the decision of the OWNER (your only option is wear it or shop/eat elsewhere

you want to live in this wonderful society? fine, be a part of it and be part of making it BETTER not WORSE … MORE CARING rather than more asinine

you are always welcome to your own OPINIONS but you may NOT have your own “facts” … truth is truth and science is science … period

now then … has anyone fixed the Chiefs yet?

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  upamtn
10/13/2021 3:01 pm

Science is science. Hahaha. That single statement shows that you have zero comprehension of science. Science is a theory by definition. It changes daily. Of course you could always go get a lobotomy as treatment for a headache. Or douse yourself and children with DDT. Build your house out of asbestos, the universe revolves around the earth. The list goes on and on.

upamtn
Reply to  Maw423
10/13/2021 3:17 pm

Maw, I fucking TAUGHT science for 20 years … your pseudo-intellectual so-called argument is bullshit and I’m calling it just that … of COURSE it changes daily, so the fuck what?

now go back and finish eating the rest of your brain like a good lad, your fava beans are getting cold and we can’t have that happen, now can we?

Maw423
Maw423
Reply to  upamtn
10/14/2021 4:49 am

Figures you’d be a teacher. No wonder these kids can’t think themselves out of wet paper bag in this country.

Budahmon
Budahmon
Reply to  upamtn
10/13/2021 6:05 pm

Roads are paid by gas taxes… that is just the first of your strawman. The rest are the same. Biden said he had a plan….his plan was the same as Trump’s. Now you want to blame it on some person who doesn’t need or want to get the vaccine to cover for your polotical party. It’s their business not yours and your progressive authoritarian political beliefs are showing. It doesn’t surprise me that progressives who were responsible for Jim Crow, the Tuskegee Experiments, forced lobotomies and sterilizations always are so authoritarian.

Stuckinpackland
Stuckinpackland
10/13/2021 8:54 am

Think we could get Ronald Jones from TB? he’s essentially been benched for fumbling lol I know I know. However with bienemy helping him with ball security he could be fantastic. He runs hard is explosive and decisive when hitting holes.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  Stuckinpackland
10/13/2021 10:00 am

Im perfectly fine with signing guys to help the offense but if we’re using resources, draft picks or player trades, they better be used to getting defensive help.

vvet818
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 8:33 am

I never lost any sleep over anything that came out of Deadspin and this won’t alter that in any way.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  vvet818
10/13/2021 8:41 am

I just find the overreactions amusing, regardless of the source, because other than turnovers, Mahomes is having a great statistical year against some really tough opponents.

I’m still confident that the offense will get it figured out by the end of the year. The O-line should only continue to get better as they play together. The drops and tips by Hill and Kelce are the exception rather than the rule when you look at their careers. And Mahomes is still the best QB in football, even if he’s had a few rough snaps here and there.

The defense, on the other hand, is the only reason I question another SB run this year. You can’t beat the best teams with an historically bad defense. A bad defense? Clearly. Given that KC has been doing that for years. An average defense? Hello, SB win. But historically bad defense is a recipe for playoff failure.

vvet818
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 11:42 am

100% agree with you

upamtn
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 12:12 pm

historically bad defense is a recipe for playoff failure

or a recipe for not even making the playoffs to begin with …

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  upamtn
10/13/2021 3:42 pm

With the extra wildcard spot, I have a hard time seeing this happening. The offense will get it together eventually, at least enough to win 10+ games and get into the playoffs. My predication as it currently stands is 11-6, going into the bye with a 6-5 record after losing to Packers and Cowboys in that stretch and losing one more division game in the stretch after the bye where we play vs Denver, vs LV, @ Chargers, vs Steelers, @ Bengals, and @ Broncos. It’s just trying to beat the Chargers/Bills/(sometimes) Ravens once we’re in the playoffs that worries me.

Obviously any given Sunday and all that, but other than those three teams (and the AFC West caveat that we can lose randomly even when we’re playing well otherwise), are you worried about any other team in the AFC? Are you scared of Mac Jones and the Patriots? How about Joe Burrow and the Bengals? Baker and the Browns? Tannehill and the Titans? I just don’t see any other defenses there that can slow our offense down enough, even if we’re terrible on defense.

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  vvet818
10/13/2021 5:17 pm

I vaguely remember when Deadspin was actually interesting sometimes. Back when a lot of journalists actually had character. Now they are just like a bunch of kids trying to fake a character to impress each other and the grownups.

EAFOX
10/13/2021 7:04 am

I remember as a young teacher – lining my Junior High students up in the cafeteria to return from lunch. I had all of the 48 students lined up – quietly and orderly – against the far wall of the cafeteria. FYI – At that age group, an essential teacher skill is lining students up in an orderly line. Principal – who was a bully – screamed at me from across the cafeteria – to not line up there but elsewhere. Did not matter that other students in the cafeteria were running around helter skelter. I quietly and slowly walked across the cafeteria to the principal and said, “What did you need, sir?” He got my point – you might be my boss but you ain’t gonna treat me like a kid. He never raised his voice to me again. Those in charge think they have free reign on those below them. They all must go.

EAFOX
10/13/2021 6:54 am

I am waiting to see if there will be any public outcry but probably not as it only impacts the employees and inner city school districts tend not to be the places where school boards are battling parents being angry with COVID protocol and such. My building mandated that all staff get fingerprinted – I refused – not sure if the head honchos know yet. The district has my fingerprints on file – I had to do it to be able to recertify and I complained at the time that it was a violation of my civil liberties – I was hired long before taking fingerprints was mandatory. Big Brother can suck my nuts.

EAFOX
10/13/2021 6:43 am

WOW – my school district has now joined the fray – they decided last night that all employees must prove that they have been vaccinated or be subjected to the Progressive Discipline policy – in other words, being fired. It is nobody’s business but my own whether I chose to be vaccinated. What is next – forced sterilization?

3rdnlong
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 6:44 am

It’s almost like they want people to revolt.

EAFOX
Reply to  3rdnlong
10/13/2021 6:49 am

The humorous thing is that they have a mask policy but do not require social distancing and such. There is no penalty for students who continually violate the mask policy BUT the handful of staff will be required to be vaccinated and they cannot require students to be vaccinated to be at school.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 7:44 am

As a “classical liberal” who also works at a school district, I find the argument fairly compelling that it’s immoral on an individual level to refuse to get vaccinated and have a much greater probability of contributing to the sickness and/or death of those who you interact with throughout a day. I certainly can understand not appreciating a mandate, particularly if it’s government doing the mandating, but from libertarian perspective, I’m having a hard time understanding how a personal choice to forego the vaccine is anything but immoral under libertarian logic.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 9:20 am

There is absolutely no science in this statement have a much greater probability of contributing to the sickness and/or death of those who you interact with throughout a day”.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:31 am

Isn’t there? If I don’t have COVID, there’s 0% chance that I pass it on to you. And if I’m 95% less likely to get COVID when I’m vaccinated, then I’m 95% less likely to be passing COVID along to those I interact with. I’d call that science.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 11:23 am

The vaccine doesn’t prevent you from getting it. It prevents you from sub coming to it. You are still walking around spreading it you just don’t know it. On the other hand, If I have a fever and am not feeling well I know to isolate myself and or get a test.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 11:34 am

Source?

The experts say that it does both: significantly reduces your risk of getting infected in the first place, and lowers the amount of virus shedding in those few breakthrough cases.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work

MasterChief
MasterChief
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 2:57 pm

If you TRY not to get other people sick, then fine, at least you tried.

If you don’t TRY, then you’re part of the reason I have to wear a mask everywhere I go.

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 8:06 am

As long as you agree to forgo any and all medical care or agree to pay for all of it yourself, and avoid any contact with anyone else it IS nobody’s business. Otherwise, it becomes everyone’s business. My work requires a flu shot each and every year. No one freaks out. A new flu shot for a new strain of flu. Every year. Get over yourself.

Budahmon
Budahmon
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/13/2021 8:40 am

If you are vaccinated you shouldn’t be worrying over someone else’s status. I’m vaccinated….I really don’t care if you are. I’m not a fucking authoritarian busybody….obviously you are.

Stuckinpackland
Stuckinpackland
Reply to  Budahmon
10/13/2021 8:50 am

I am as well, but guess who can’t get vaccinated? My 4 month old daughter…

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  hoosierchief
10/13/2021 9:19 am

This 100%, the idea that being unvaccinated is somehow putting others in danger is a lie and a dangerous one.

Stuckinpackland
Stuckinpackland
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 9:35 am

So what your saying is that nfl mlb NBA teams all that are no longer in a bubble but are 75-100% vaccinated and are tested almost every day aren’t getting covid by sheer luck?

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  Stuckinpackland
10/13/2021 10:05 am

What I’m saying is the vaccine in no way prevents the spread. It might be worse because you no longer feel the effects of being sick so you walk around spreading it not knowing.

Last edited 12 days ago by ArrowFan
NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:42 am

“In no way prevents the spread”
Sources? Here’s one (It’s science, you may not believe it) that says otherwise https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
The Delta variant spreads more easily through Vaxxed people than the non-Delta, but the vast majority of infections are still in/from un-Vaxxed.

upamtn
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 12:15 pm

the fewer people that are infected, the less of a chance of the disease spreading … it’s not just science, it’s common sense

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  upamtn
10/13/2021 12:20 pm

We don’t do common sense anymore. Shame, really. It always seemed useful

upamtn
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/13/2021 12:28 pm

common sense isn’t very common these days

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  hoosierchief
10/13/2021 9:22 am

Where are you gathering this information? It’s well documented that the percentage of positive cases are overwhelmingly in unvaccinated people, as are the percentages of hospitalizations and deaths. Obviously if people aren’t getting COVID they aren’t spreading it, so the vaccine does have an effect on the spread, even if you don’t believe that a vaccinated individual with COVID sheds less virus (which I think is still debatable at this point given the data we have).

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 9:29 am

Data is funny. If I simply don’t record any data from a particular subset then it will look like it doesn’t occur.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:57 am

Where is there room for not recording data when talking about hospitalizations and deaths? We know when someone dies after spending a couple of weeks on a ventilator because of severe COVID infection, and we also know whether those people have been vaccinated or not. Thus, we can determine fairly easily that those who have not been vaccinated make up the vast majority of severe illness and death from COVID.

Budahmon
Budahmon
Reply to  Stuckinpackland
10/13/2021 7:00 pm

The science says that she is more likely to die from the flu than Covid. So are you also mandating flu shots?

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  Budahmon
10/13/2021 9:19 am

Maybe statistics are too hard for most of us (myself included), but the numbers show why a person might care about others’ vaccination statuses.

  • More than 9 million adults in the US are immunocompromised and thus at higher risk of serious illness or death from COVID-19, even if they are vaccinated.
  • Approximately 48 million children are ineligible for the vaccine at this point. While deaths appear to be less common in children (as is the case with most illness), we still see long-term “long hauler” symptoms in some children.
  • The COVID vaccine (like any vaccine) is not 100% effective. Although less than 3% of COVID deaths are occurring in vaccinated people and 97%+ of deaths are occurring in unvaccinated people, there is still a small chance that a vaccinated person could die if they get COVID.
  • Also, vaccinated people are 95% less likely to have COVID at all, based on the numbers from the states. As one would logically conclude, the larger the number of people with COVID (which is exponentially higher among the unvaccinated), the greater the spread, and the greater the total number of vaccinated people are in that <3% that die from COVID.

All that to say, I feel like there’s plenty of legitimate, data-driven reasons why I might care if my friends, coworkers, neighbors, and others that I come into contact with are vaccinated, even if I myself have been vaccinated and believe the data about the vaccine’s efficacy.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  Slayer0810
10/13/2021 9:27 am

That last point is a lie and needs to be fact-checked. The vaccinated are just as if not more likely to be spreading it around.

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:43 am

Again, sources? Just saying it doesn’t make it so.

Slayer0810
Slayer0810
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:51 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Maybe there’s some grand conspiracy to spread lies about COVID. But if there is, it involves almost every medical professional and data scientist. The more likely scenario is that you and I, non-professionals in epidemiology, are not very good at interpreting data ourselves. Unfortunately, a large number of people have concluded that they are better at putting data into context than the professionals who have spent a lifetime studying this sort of thing.

Last edited 12 days ago by Slayer0810
upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
10/13/2021 12:16 pm

hypocrisy on both sides (as usual)

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  Budahmon
10/13/2021 10:34 am

Read much? I don’t want to pay for the care of someone who willingly puts themselves in a position to get sick. Take the precautions, get sick, I’m happy to help. Refuse the simplest protection, get sick? Fuck off. Explain exactly how that is authoritarian, please?

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/13/2021 5:31 pm

You ever smoke? Drink alcohol? Eat too much carbs or red meat? Fail to exercise regularly? If you’re choosing to put yourself at risk for heart disease, which I think is still a pretty common killer in this country (maybe even moreso than the demon covid), then maybe I shouldn’t have to subsidize your medical and/or funeral bills with my insurance and tax money.

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  Berserker
10/13/2021 8:40 pm

No, hardly, no, no, no. Happy?

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/25/2021 12:53 pm

Nope, you gotta carry a passport to prove those statements. Or even better, a different passport for each one.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 9:23 am

I agree with you all the way. One question that doesn’t seem to have an answer. Who is liable if something goes wrong and I have an extremely adverse reaction to it? Another good one is what other medical treatments to we all think our neighbors need to have done?

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 10:45 am

What medical conditions do you think your neighbors may come in contact with that could possibly effect the entire neighborhood? Measles? Likely vaxxed. Small pox? Likely vaxxed. Polio? Guess what?

ArrowFan
ArrowFan
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/13/2021 11:20 am

What are your cholesterol levels? How about your blood sugar. If they are not coming in at the correct numbers then no more steak or cake for you. After all, we need to keep the hospital beds free for people who deserve them not for people who cannot control their eating habits. See how this works. If you want a vaccine great take it. But my medical choices are none of anyone else’s business.

upamtn
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 12:26 pm

my medical choices are none of anyone else’s business

unless your choices threaten the lives of others (or do you believe that it’s A-OK for you to unknowingly spread a potentially deadly disease to everyone around you?)

you’re basically saying that you have an inherent right to (unknowingly) kill other people by your apathy towards a pandemic

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  ArrowFan
10/13/2021 1:18 pm

Are you suggesting that stupidity and refusal to do the most basic things for yourself are genetic? Because all those things are.
Try again.

zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  NovaChiefs
10/13/2021 2:26 pm

‘dumk-ass’ is genetic

EAFOX
10/13/2021 6:32 am

I watched the Mike Florio video that BRAG posted last night. IF the NFL did leak the Gruden emails, that is some of one the lowest back stabbing maneuvers ever. This is much different than a third party leaking the emails. Goodell needs to step down as commissioner to address this email. The video also suggests that the NFL is burying other potential emails that would put other people in similar situations to Gruden. This dirt pool needs to be fought by every NFL owner, GM, head coach, and player. Enough is enough. They intentionally ruined a man’s career. Gruden might be an ass wipe and perhaps deserved to pay the consequences but the intentionality and selectivity of this process is border line fascism.

Nasrani
Nasrani
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 6:41 am

And why were the brass sitting on these emails for ten years*? That also screams vendetta, to me.

(*I haven’t been following this very closely; last I heard the emails in question were from 2011.)

EAFOX
Reply to  Nasrani
10/13/2021 6:45 am

I highly suggest viewing the Florio video that BRAG posted in the late night thread last night. Evidently, the NFL never released any official report as they searched thru the Washington emails. Sounds like a huge cover up and, as you say, a vendetta going on.

Stuckinpackland
Stuckinpackland
Reply to  Nasrani
10/13/2021 7:26 am

They spanned from 2011 to 2018

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs
Reply to  Stuckinpackland
10/13/2021 8:08 am

So for at least 7 years, he’s been going on like that. It also means that at least some of them were sent while he was the HC again

Berserker
Berserker
Reply to  EAFOX
10/13/2021 5:35 pm

Man, they’re all ass wipes. And deserve’s got nothin to do with it.

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