Morning Huddle – Thursday

 185 replies

Good morning Chiefs Kingdom! Grab yourself a cup o’ Joe and get in the Huddle!

Chiefs news for March 16, 2023

Jump to Tweets | Jump to comments

Good morning AG!

Today in Chiefs’ history, Casey Weigmann signs with the Chiefs in 2001

Elsewhere, in 2014, Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation; despite opposition from numerous countries, Russia later annexed the region.

1995 (1995!): Mississippi ratified the Thirteenth Amendment—which abolished slavery—130 years after it was added to the U.S. Constitution

1968: The My Lai Massacre occurs in Vietnam

1945: U.S. Marines captured the Japanese island of Iwo Jima during World War II.

1926: Jerry Lewis was born

Let’s end on that high note, and see what is in the news

Why Orlando Brown Jr has yet to sign with team in free agency, per Adam Schefter | Clutchpoints

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-rumors-why-orlando-brown-jr-has-yet-to-sign-with-team-in-free-agency-per-adam-schefter

…the league views him as a right tackle. He wants to be paid as a left tackle. So that also enters into it,” Schefter said on ESPN’s NFL Live

KC Chiefs lose safety Juan Thornhill to Cleveland Browns, but an able successor await | The Wichita Eagle

https://www.kansas.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article273199825.html#storylink=mainstage_lead

The Chiefs won’t have safety Juan Thornhill in their defensive backfield next season.

All-Pro offensive tackle David Bakhtiari says Isiah Pacheco is part of the best running back/tight end tandem in the NFL | Rutgerswire

The best running back and tight end duo in the NFL is in the AFC West and with the Super Bowl champions. So says David Bakhtiari, the Green Bay Packers starting left tackle.

NFL’s 2023 league year, free agency signing period begin today (Mar 15) | Chiefswire

The Kansas City Chiefs and other NFL clubs have been allowed to engage in legal tampering since Monday at Noon ET. They’ll soon be able to officially consummate deals with outside free agents.

JuJu Smith-Schuster Signs Contract With New England Patriots | Last Word on Sports

NFL veteran wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster signed a new contract with the New England Patriots. 

Former Chiefs WR JuJu Smith-Schuster pens thank you to Kansas City | Chiefswire

After just one season with the Kansas City Chiefs, WR JuJu Smith-Schuster is moving on to join another AFC team. Smith-Schuster agreed to a three-year contract with the New England Patriots on Wednesday.

Chiefs Tender Shane Buechele as ERFA for 2023 | Fresno Bee

https://www.fresnobee.com/sports/partners/article273186465.html#storylink=mainstage_card

Kansas City retains one of its backup quarterbacks for the offseason program and beyond.

Chiefs DL coach Joe Cullen running defensive line drills at Georgia pro day | Chiefswire

Chiefs defensive line coach Joe Cullen is running the drills and on-field workouts for an extremely talented Bulldogs defensive line group. This is notable because Kansas City isn’t typically among teams to send position coaches out to pro days with regularity.

Henry Winkler loved meeting Chiefs fans during visit to KC. The feeling was mutual | KC Star via Yahoo

https://www.yahoo.com/news/henry-winkler-loved-meeting-chiefs-155025406.html

Winkler met a number of Chiefs fans and he was clearly touched by their support.

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zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:52 pm
zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:40 pm

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Nasrani
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:35 pm

To the first point, I thought I read that he “want[s] to play for the Jets.” Of course that doesn’t mean a deal is inked yet.

Nasrani
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:38 pm

That explains it.

hoosierchief
Reply to  Nasrani
03/16/2023 1:43 pm

The packers can ask for all they want, but in the end, if they ask too much, Rodgers will just retire and they get nothing. On they other hand, he may just show up at their camp, make them pay him and not do a damn thing. The pack really doesn’t have a lot of leverage on this.

zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:29 pm

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zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:23 pm
zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:21 pm

trey wingo
@wingoz

Veach’s track record is enough for me to trust this decision

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:22 pm

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BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:30 pm

Drafting track record? Absolutely. Free agent track record? Meh

zulu trader
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 1:49 pm

His track record is 5 AFC championship games and 3 Super Bowls

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 4:16 pm

I’d say Belicheck was a pretty terrible drafter and was mediocre in free agency. He has 6 super bowls as coach/gm.

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 2:03 pm

I think the difference between draft picks not working out vs free agents is the money involved, so free agents are judged more harshly and are paid more attention. It seems that most GM’s track records are similar for both, which is surprising considering they should know a lot more about the free agent than they would a rookie draft pick. There have been many teams going “all in” for a season and not do as well as expected. I think Veach does about the norm on free agency, but has been excellent on the drafts.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 4:22 pm

Fair enough, I’ll agree with that take. I’m letting the big misses overshadow the hits in free agency. Time will tell with Taylor

zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:13 pm

uSTADIUM
@uSTADIUM

#Cowboys #Ravens and #Chiefs are the teams showing the most interest in Odell Beckham Jr.

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:55 pm

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upamtn
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 2:26 pm

I wouldn’t give this fool a nickel much less let him NEAR any team that I cared about …

zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:11 pm

Matt Derrick
@mattderrick

Jawaan Taylor rattles off a bunch of reasons why he chose Kansas City: playing for Andy Reid and playing with Mahomes and Kelce at the top of list. Adds that he also wanted to “embrace change.”

This will be the first time in his life playing for team outside Florida.

Last edited 12 days ago by zulu trader
zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:12 pm

hope he likes cold weather

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:14 pm

Matt Derrick
@mattderrick
·
Follow
First impression of new Chiefs LT Jawaan Taylor — as we say these days, he’s won the Zoom. Big smile, seems happy with his decision, clearly knows his new team and mates.

Feels like someone Chiefs fans will take to immediately.

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:17 pm

Nate Taylor
@ByNateTaylor

Jawaan Taylor on chatting with Patrick Mahomes within the past few days: “I can tell already he’s a great leader. I can’t wait to go to battle with him.”

comment image

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:18 pm

Nate Taylor
@ByNateTaylor

In his introductory news conference via Zoom, Jawaan Taylor says of playing the left tackle position, “I feel I’m definitely able to make the switch pretty seamless.”

Taylor also said Orlando Brown Jr.’s success switching positions played a role in him joining the Chiefs.

upamtn
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:26 pm

wait …

didn’t the Chiefs just let Brown go because he DIDN’T make that switch very successfully???

hoosierchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 1:29 pm

technically they didn’t let him go, just didn’t think he was worth what he wanted so they didn’t hire him back. Some of us here didn’t think he made the switch very well, but to be honest, I don’t know how good he was at RT. the problems he had at LT could have been there on the other side as well.

upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 1:40 pm

still … “not brought back” as LT when they need a LT … and replaced by a HIGHER PRICED guy who thus far has never been a LT (and may not be any better than the guy who wasn’t brought back)

hoosierchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 1:45 pm

make one think that the Chiefs weren’t real happy with him.

zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:33 pm

Well, quite active in the Morning Huddle today

It must be your effect, Nova

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:35 pm

We seem to have some new guys here who like to discuss football

Go Chiefs!

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:38 pm

Except for Ups. He wants to talk about a court case

upamtn
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:43 pm

it IS football related …

Nasrani
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:23 pm

And Nasrani. All he does is post stupid jokes and classic rock.

zulu trader
Reply to  Nasrani
03/16/2023 1:25 pm

it adds character to the site!

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  Nasrani
03/16/2023 1:55 pm

Give up on your Jordanian dream?

Nasrani
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 3:37 pm

Nah, but all things in moderation.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:48 pm

Just pointing out, I’m not new. I just had a long sabbatical starting shortly after Mr. Stratton moved along.

zulu trader
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 12:52 pm

Very glad you are back!

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  NovaChiefs
03/16/2023 7:31 pm

Still aren’t. 😉

zulu trader
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 12:59 pm

Makes me and Hoosier very happy

hoosierchief
Reply to  zulu trader
03/16/2023 1:02 pm

Actually, what really makes me happy is that Eafox’s ex is his and not mine!

zulu trader
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 1:08 pm

Ea’s ex-wife’s’ vaginacomment image

Last edited 12 days ago by zulu trader
upamtn
03/16/2023 12:07 pm

ok, how many “ordinary people” would be involved in something like this AND end up with a “slap on the wrist” probation (allowing him to now focus on the NFL draft and become an instant millionaire) …. you? me? any of us? anyone any of us know personally? (we’d be in jail for years for doing something like this)

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

Former UGA football star Jalen Carter sentenced to probation in crash that killed teammate and team staffer, his attorney says

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/sport/jalen-carter-uga-crash-plea/index.html

Former University of Georgia football standout Jalen Carter was sentenced to probation on Thursday for his role in the January crash that killed his teammate and a team staffer, his attorney told CNN.

The crash happened hours after the Bulldogs’ national championship victory parade.

Carter entered pleas of no contest Thursday to charges of racing and reckless driving, according to his attorney, Kim Stephens.

Carter was then sentenced to 12 months of probation, a $1,000 fine and 50 hours of community service and completion of a state-approved defensive driving course, the attorney said.

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:15 pm

I disagree with that take. Carter was only charged with racing and reckless driving. He was not charged with a DUI or indicted in any way for the death of his teammate. At that age, most of us are guilty of racing and reckless driving. The only difference – no one lost their life racing against us. Tragic – yes. Immaturity on Carter’s part – most definitely. Criminal offense – He got what most of us would have received.

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:21 pm

really? consider the following …

More than four months before the fatal crash, Carter had been issued three traffic citations – including one for speeding at nearly twice the legal limit, according to documents and body camera video obtained by CNN from the Athens-Clarke County Police Department.

On September 22, Carter was stopped for speeding. An officer is heard on body camera footage telling him that he was “reckless,” and issued three traffic tickets

 One ticket showed Carter was driving at 89 mph in a 45 mph zone. A second ticket cited him for having “material affixed” to his car which “obstructs vision.” A third citation was for an illegal windshield tint.

Bodycam video from the stop showed Carter in the driver’s seat of a Black Jeep. The officer held up a radar gun showing a speed of 89 mph, according to the video.

The officer then tested the tint on Carter’s vehicle – which he said is illegal in the state of Georgia. “The front windshield can’t have nothing on it. No material on it whatsoever, OK?”

“Your break is you’re not going to jail. That’s your break. Because that would make all kinds of news, alright?” the officer is heard telling Carter in the footage.

======================================================================================

so he was treated lightly BEFORE the fatal crash, then went out and did basically the same thing all over again … and you’re ok with that? do you REALLY think we’d get the same treatment???

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:31 pm

Did not say that I was okay with it but there are a plethora of examples where something was treated lightly and someone did basically the same thing all over again. That last part is very much a description of what a college kid might do. Should we lock up all speeders to avoid what might possibly happen in the future. Our society is conditioned to overlook these things until something tragic happens. Yes, I believe that we would get the same treatment.

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:41 pm

 Our society is conditioned to overlook these things until something tragic happens

except that in THIS case something happened month ago, it was “brushed off” (and I get it!) but then something tragic happens and it’s pretty much overlooked AGAIN (what I consider a ridiculously light sentence: 12 months probation)

I get it, totally … and I don’t think they should “lock up all speeders” … but you know the old saying: “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me” … the speeding and racing etc etc months ago, ok fine … but to do the same thing all over again and it results in a couple of deaths? no, that’s where the guy NEEDS to be locked up

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:46 pm

My favorite part of The Golden Child was the passing lament for a former Golden Child … the Child of Justice

EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:47 am

We also need to be realistic. Orlando Brown was a solid tackle who primarily struggled with speed rushers. He was no Anthony Munoz. Both he and Wylie struggled during the first half of the season but responded with a very solid second half and good playoff performance. The Chiefs made many adjustments to help them out during that stretch. Fisher and Schwartz were left on an island much more often. Taylor may never rise above an Orlando Brown level but we can still win with that. Bonus points for us if he is better, As for the money, it is a ridiculous sum but the NFL is headed in that direction. Any bargain basement tackle would have been a much bigger risk.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:51 am

It’s a premium position. You either have to spend premium picks or premium money.

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:52 am

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd gonna always have “pass pro” issues going on as long as you have a Mahomes passing on almost every down … it’s just gonna happen (unless you get THE BEST EVER and even then it’s gonna happen) … I just think the Taylor money is ridiculous for a guy with so many “questions” (at least, we fans have questions, BV and AR may think he’s the best thing since sliced bread – and since THEY’RE running the team, ain’t much WE can do about anything anyway)

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:54 am

Assuming that we could not have retained Brown or Wylie, which option would you have pursued to replace them?

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:00 pm

you’re assuming … never assume anything (and I assume that you already know that)

Slayer0810
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:45 pm

Hard to say how the transition to LT will go for Taylor, but he was the 5th best overall T in the league in 2022 in pressures per pass blocking snap, behind Wirfs, Johnson, Tunsil, and Conklin.

upamtn
03/16/2023 11:40 am

Train hauling corn syrup derails in Arizona; no injuries

https://apnews.com/article/arizona-freight-train-derailment-corn-syrup-d9b8ed1bc66fc18545dce55e511114fb

this is probably going to be a “sticky situation” for awhile …

hoosierchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:42 am

Think of the swarm of bees heading their way!

upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:49 am

or ants

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:59 am

or my ex-wife heading there with pancakes.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:16 pm

It’s a big house, how are you going to keep it clean?

EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:35 am

There is risk involved in every Free Agent signing. With Taylor, we have acquired a young, athletic tackle who seems to be an up and coming player. Money aside, there is the risk that he will not settle into the LT position and it becomes a bad deal. That is under the assumption that the plan is to move him there. I will remain optimistic that he will succeed until I see evidence otherwise. There are likely to be growing pains if he moves to LT, but I can live with that if the end result is a good one. I like the potential outcome.

pompano
03/16/2023 11:23 am

Team Player
Team Player
03/16/2023 11:13 am

So who thinks that adding Devin Bush – as a strong safety – would be a good idea? He has all the SS measurables and the knocks on him as a LB are size and can’t get off blocks well. Non-issues as a safety.

EAFOX
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 11:16 am

Is he still the same player that he was before the injuries? Pre-injury, I would sign him in a heartbeat.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:17 am

Based on stats, he is about 80% of the player he was before

EAFOX
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 11:25 am

We do play a ton of three safety sets – I am assuming that the Chiefs are doing their homework to see if he might be a fit.

EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:11 am

I do not necessarily trust the evaluation of Taylor – remember how bad Jacksonville was prior to this year – his best year. How bad was their line overall? How bad was their offense? His performance grade numbers were surely impacted by the quality of team around him.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:15 am

Valid point. His numbers turned a corner last year.

Then again, if it’s the tide of teammates that raises his ship, that is a good thing considering the upgrade he is getting this year.

Nasrani
03/16/2023 8:48 am

And OBJLT to the Bengals.

Team Player
Team Player
03/16/2023 8:07 am

Strangely enough, I feel good about the off-season so far. Team needs: FS OT DT DE WR – but none is a critical need … high character JAGs can fill each. Which means the draft can be BPA

Warpath
Warpath
03/16/2023 6:36 am

“WORLD CHAMPIONS”

Nasrani
Reply to  Warpath
03/16/2023 8:48 am

comment image

BKSchief
BKSchief
03/16/2023 5:38 am

Veach saw Brown play LT for half a season in the NFL and his whole collegiate career, traded for him to be the starting LT, paid him around a total of $20+ mil in 2 years and let him walk.

Veach saw Taylor play LT for zero games in the NFL and a handful of games in college, and gave him $60m guaranteed to be the LT of the Chiefs.

Veach has earned a lot of trust, but this one is a head scratcher.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  NovaChiefs
03/16/2023 8:10 am

Pride definitely involved. His tweet made it clear he was more worried about being LT (like his father) than getting top dollar

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 8:15 am

I’d be pretty proud if I outplayed a guy in KC the previous few years as well and they gave more guaranteed money to him sight unseen than they offered me

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  NovaChiefs
03/16/2023 8:13 am

And again, $60m guaranteed to a converted RT to play a position he’s never played…I’m kind of surprised there isnt more discussion about this.

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 8:24 am

It’s clearly a burr in your saddle, but I think you’re alone for now. That will make the “I told you so” sweeter if you are proven correct. Not enough to erase the bitter pill that would be the proof but that’s life.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 8:25 am

So a converted RT getting LT guaranteed money who’s never played the position isn’t a burr in your saddle? 🤔

Team Player
Team Player
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:39 am

Nope. People who are smarter than me spent a lot of time and energy evaluating this. I am not arrogant enough to think I know more. In my youth I was that arrogant, but not any more.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Team Player
03/16/2023 10:52 am

Sure, but that’s what these boards are for: to discuss your perspective as a fan. I guess you could always not do that?

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:53 am

I trust the Andy’s to have a pretty good feel for this. Plus worst case is he plays RT and we have to help our LT on pass plays whether a rookie or someone else. At least we won’t have to scheme around BOTH tackles like we did last year. That should be a win. The only thing that gives me pause is the abysmal run grade Taylor has. I have to assume the Andy’s feel certain they can fix that. But regardless, Taylor seems much more like a Andy Reid kind of tackle than Orlando did. I think they feel more confident about being able to get the most out of him because they’ve done it before with other players with similar skill sets.

Last edited 12 days ago by Big Chief
DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 10:57 am

Perfectly said.

Never felt like we could run behind Orlando either.

upamtn
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:01 am

might not be able to run behind Taylor if he’s that bad at run blocking … seems like more money for a less proven commodity

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:05 am

Basically the same money that we offered orlando. Or if we tagged him

upamtn
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:06 am

I’d have kept Wylie for less than half the money and draft a new LT

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:09 am

I think Wylie had peaked, plus you had to scheme help for him. We needed to get at least ONE tackle that you can trust to be on an island most of the time. I don’t think Wylie fit that bill.

upamtn
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:44 am

maybe valid point, but for less than half the money … with cap concerns … to me seemed like a “no brainer” to re-sign Wylie and then figure out LT (and I’m still not convinced Taylor’s gonna be “the answer” there, but we shall see)

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:55 am

I think Wylie was still better suited for OG than OT. I think they really want to cut down on the hits on Mahomes, and a lot of those came from the edges. All indications are that Taylor should be an upgrade over Wylie and Brown in that category.

upamtn
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:57 am

I think they really want to cut down on the hits on Mahomes

then two things come to mind:

1) Mahomes needs to get rid of it faster (as he did in the SB), and/or …

2) call more running plays

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:37 pm

With all that said, Mahomes held the ball 2nd longest in the league last year. So he was still holding the ball too long, but additionally, the OL, including the OTs, were good enough to give him that time before the pocket broke down or he threw the ball

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:45 pm

Usually when he held the ball that long, he was running around everywhere but the pocket! A little bit of Fran Tarkington in that guy.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 1:17 pm

That’s true but this stat is based on pocket time only. I believe its time to pass or pocket breakdown after snap

Nasrani
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:39 pm

Here’s hoping the OCs and/or coaching staff read AG (unlikely):

EAFOX
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:58 am

Respect for Wylie. He had average talent but was a reliable starter. He fought his way into the starting lineup and I am glad that he got financially rewarded – especially when that money comes from another team.

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:01 pm

I’m glad Wylie is getting paid, he’s certainly worked for it and had some really good games.

But I think Andy wants to get back to having his preferred type of player at tackle – a tall, athletic guy with long arms. They seem to have more confidence they can make that work.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:46 am

Very risky drafting a LT that late in the 1st.

Very risky also being forced to draft a particular position.

I look at Denver. The did that with Bear Hug Bolles. Needed a LT, drafted him around 20 and forced him into the starting lineup. Very mediocre for 3 years. One good year and they overpaid to keep him around. Plus he already pushing 30.

upamtn
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:56 am

then too, DEN is not KC and the Chiefs have (I think) better decision makers at top AND better position coaches (Andy Heck, for example) … ANY draft pick is gonna be a risk just going from College to Pros and almost ANY OLine guy is gonna need help and scheming etc etc from time to time (thus my preference for Wylie over a guy like Taylor and the huge $$$ he’s getting)

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:07 am

I like the fact that Veach took the tag off the table because they wanted to get some stability at tackle. I still like Orlando, I just wish he was better at the business side because I think he would still be a Chief.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:10 am

He got more guaranteed money than KC offered. I’m confused on the “better at business side” take here

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:25 am

You seem to be really stuck on this guaranteed money. While it’s extremely important, it’s not the only aspect of these contracts. As it has been pointed out the huge final unguarenteed year is just a pipe dream, but the other years on the contract cannot just be ignored. The first 5 years of the contract that the chiefs offered were realistic years to be earned if he stayed healthy.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 12:42 pm

Injuries are exactly the point of why they want more guaranteed money. Injuries can occur at any time and if the team can walk away after 2 years, doesn’t make it worth the commitment from the player when he can just go year to year and get back to free agency. And if the team felt he wasn’t performing up to the contract they offered, they can walk away and he is forced to negotiate from a disadvantage of being cut for subpar play. The guaranteed years are the absolute most important thing for young players negotiating new deals. I’m not “stuck on” guaranteed money, it is what it is

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:47 pm

I think the NFL contracts are pretty lopsided in favor of the team. a 5 year contract that the team can cancel whenever they want, but the player can’t. heck yes, if I had the clout I’d go heavy for the guaranteed money and upfront bonus…

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 1:01 pm

100%. The more money they can get upfront and guaranteed, the more likely they will be to sign. And if they can’t get that money upfront, they roll the dice on a short term deal so they can get back to free agency quicker. Brown stayed healthy and got to free agency, where he turned a $38m guarantee over 2 years to $60m guaranteed across 3 years. Not too bad for him

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:25 am

Who is LC?

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:37 am

I don’t think Orlando got anything like the contract he was expecting. He was always pretty clear he wanted more than Stanley was getting in Baltimore. He didn’t have an agent for a long time, and then he gets a guy who had no experience in the league. He ends up with less than the Chiefs offered him last year, and far less than Stanley is getting. I think if he’d had gotten a better agent he’d have a much better contract than he ended up with. Once he didn’t get signed on day one of the tampering period, it was pretty clear they had messed up their evaluation of the market.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 12:43 pm

We don’t know what he asked for, we just know it was more than $38m guaranteed years over 2 years (essentially 2 franchise tags) that KC offered last year. He got that from Cincy

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:05 am

I’m interested to see WHY he’s so poorly graded at run blocking. He’s definitely athletic enough to do it more so than OBJ, so it’s a question of whether it’s a technique or attitude issue. Both can be fixed, thouth the former is easier than the latter.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:13 am

I’m more concerned with why he was so poorly graded pass blocking until 2022 and what changed in one year that was enough to offer $60m guaranteed

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:19 am

One possibility is that he had a QB that was learning the game. they way they drop back and move in the pocket can make even a good lineman look bad.

EAFOX
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:23 am

Similar to my comment above – without looking at all of his tape, we have no idea how many bad plays are on him and how many are on the quality of the play around him. Lawrence did have a learning curve.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:46 pm

We ready to discuss how Mahomes can make an OT look bad in terms of pressures bc of holding the ball too long and bailing on clean pockets unnecessarily on occasion (less so this year but still an issue, nonetheless)?

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:48 pm

I noticed times when he’d make Brown look bad because he dropped back to punting depth. no wonder he couldn’t block his guy.

upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:50 pm

wait

are y’all implying that Mahomes ISN’T 100% absolute perfection in 100% everything he does? *gasp*

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:56 pm

LoL, Mahomes is god-tier to say the least. Absolute best QB in the league by a large margin and is chasing ghosts now to be one of, if not THE goat.

With that said, even he has some things he can get better at, and staying in the pocket is a work in progress. He gets into hero-mode every now and again (concurrently with another thread, usually when Reid tends to abandon the run) and it makes life for the OTs pretty hard

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:57 pm

That does tend to happen every now and again

Snafu
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 2:16 pm

He does bail from clean pockets some, sometimes in to pressure. Escapes pressure too.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Snafu
03/16/2023 3:08 pm

Oh he’s damn good at avoiding pressure. But yeah, when he gets into hero ball mode, it can get bad. But again, much less of that this year

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:41 am

You’re surprised he didn’t blossom in Jacksonville before Pedersen? The team that took just the 4th “can’t miss” QB in my lifetime and made him look like a bust? Yes, it is shocking. I put a lot more faith in our scouts and how much he improved under an actual NFL HC like Pedersen than on anything that happened before that.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 12:47 pm

And full circle to “one good season and $60m guaranteed”

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 2:40 pm

I assume they are basing this on more than “one good season”. And I can’t think of any FAs that Veach have been busts. He’s overpaid for a couple, most notably Hitchens, who was never the 3 down LB he was paid to be. But maybe he won’t work out, then you can rejoice.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 3:04 pm

I’ve been commenting on here a total of about a week and you’re already jumping to me wanting to be right over wanting him to work out? That’s pretty presumptious.

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:15 am

How do we know we won’t have to scheme around both tackles? Again, lots of conjecture here that we don’t have much frame of reference on. Taylor was graded BELOW Brown in pass blocking on PFF last year (by far Taylor’s best year) and was significantly below him previous seasons. What in the world would us fans see that says he won’t need the same, if not more help, than Brown did???

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:52 am

We can’t KNOW anything for sure until they play, and you pointed out that this where we come to discuss it. Like I said above, Taylor is much more of typical Andy Reid tackle, long and athletic and so I think our coaching staff see him as a better fit for what they want going forward. I really expect them to draft 2 or 3 tackles in the first two days of the next couple of drafts, and be ready to move on from him in year 3. That is what I think the real goal is.

hoosierchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 12:06 pm

I was thinking similar, if nothing else to develop some depth at tackle.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 12:49 pm

I’m good with drafting tackles. Not so good with giving $60m guaranteed to a career RT and one that hasn’t been good the vast majority of his career. If they keep Taylor on the right and draft a quality LT, it’s more palatable but still not thrilling

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 8:59 am

well, I read where he was the third best tackle in the league last year for not allowing sacks. The potential is there. I also think that some guys get pigeon-holed as a right tackle going into college, and no matter how much they improve, they are stuck there. I’m willing to give him a chance. The only reason Brown got moved there was because he insisted on it, and was mediocre.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 9:06 am

I’m willing to give him a chance too, just not at $60m guaranteed before he’s ever even been seen at the position on film. You take a shot on a rookie or a much smaller contract, makes sense. Taking a shot that includes this level of money? Yikes

I’m a big Veach supporter (guy is actually a neighbor of mine) and he has more than earned the trust. But let’s just say that’s more based on his drafting prowess as opposed to his free agency navigation. You can be a big opponent of Brown as a LT but to say this was an improvement is conjecture and the money tied to this venture is very concerning

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 9:44 am

I agree its a pricey chance, but since I’m a fan, I got to hope it works out. worse case, we end up with a good, overpaid right tackle. I do believe there is some film of him playing left tackle, just not much of it. he was moved there a few times to cover for an injury, if I recall.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 10:01 am

I read he’s never played LT in the NFL and only played it a few times in college

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:07 am

I thought I read where he had no starts, but has had to move over there for a few plays here and there. either way, not a lot of NFL plays on that side.

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 9:45 am

out of curiosity, how much do the leagues highest paid LT and RT making now?

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 10:06 am

Taylor would be the highest paid tackle by AAV at $20m/per. Guaranteed money (which is what is the most important thing for the players in their contracts), I don’t know. I know Trent Williams got under $60m total guaranteed in his deal 2 years ago, so take that fwiw

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:47 am

Williams is $23.01M/year, Bhaktiari is $23M, Tunsil is $22M. Taylor is 4th at $20M.

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 10:48 am

And none of them appear to have bogus years with hockey stick salaries, that seems to be mainly a thing for WRs (and some CBs).

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 10:50 am

Oh shoot, meant to put highest aav for RIGHT tackle. That’s my bad

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:56 am

That’s still assuming he stays at RT. Plus in the AFC West you have Bosa and Maxx on the right, who I think are the two best pass rushers in our division.

Big Chief
Big Chief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:03 am

I’m of the school that I think the difference in RT and LT is starting to disappear. Add in Von Miller and TJ Watt, and I think half of the top pass rushers in the league play primarily against the RT.

hoosierchief
Reply to  Big Chief
03/16/2023 11:23 am

I think with all the RPO’s, quick passes and such, things are changes regarding the importance of the LT because you’re seeing less of the traditional drop back and pocket passing. Its still there, but not as often. There’s still a difference between the play of the two positions, but the salaries from one side to another seem to be getting closer.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:02 pm

I do agree that more shotgun sets that allow the QB to face the whole line instead of under center/drop back that would have the QBs back to the off hand side plays a role in making RT and LT both equally important. RPO is a factor for most teams, but if you watch film, DEs and LBs just don’t react to our RPO/PA bc they know we are unlikely to run the ball. If Taylor struggles with run blocking and that impacts our propensity to run the ball, we’ll be in the same boat with OTs on islands having to win against DEs that are ALWAYS pinning their ears back to get to Mahomes. That was a big reason (if not the biggest) Brown and Wylie had their issues in pass pro, imo

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
EAFOX
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:10 pm

I agree that the shotgun makes the tackle positions equally important. However, I will disagree on the second part. Run blocking for tackles is less important in the shotgun as you hope that the pass rushers get up the field and take themselves out of the play. Thus, if teams are pinning their ears back, they are playing into the hands of the run play. Run blocking is much more important with the quarterback behind the center with traditional play calls.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:35 pm

This is a more Reid-centric thought, but we’ve seen him abandon the run after just a few short gains or losses in the run. If Taylor is a detriment in the run game, it won’t matter what set they are in, they will run the ball less

Nasrani
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:37 pm

In the past that’s true, but it seems like we stuck to it more (than usual?) this year as Pacheco developed and McKinnon proved a nice complement.

EAFOX
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:38 pm

Every swing pass to a RB is a run in the mind of Andy Reid.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 1:46 pm

Then it’s not run blocking at that point

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 12:50 pm

Its easier to run with a weak link in the line – misdirection and going the opposite way can get around it. passing not so much.

Last edited 12 days ago by hoosierchief
DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:54 am

Another point is that the chiefs seem to really value versatility on the oline. Orlando was willing to play LT, period. Thuney is willing to play anywhere which is part of the reason we paid him.

If we end up with an overpaid and elite RT. So what. Look at Lane Johnson for the Eagles. Drafted a few spots below Eric Fisher, are they complaining about what he turned out to be.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:25 am

They paid Taylor like an elite LT. Do we know he said he’d play either side? Again, more conjecture.

With that, unfortunately Taylor hasn’t been elite at all so far. Total pressures allowed is more based on how many pass block situations they are in. Brown was in over 120 more pass block situations than Taylor last year. You don’t want to go down the ugly rabbit hole of his previous years to compare either, I assure you. $60m bet on something that’s never occurred. As I said, yikes

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:29 am

I agree…and the conjecture is on both sides – he’s good, he’s bad, etc. but we won’t know much more than we do now until the whistle blows… so we’ll just wait and see.

upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:48 am

so you’re saying that no matter what any of us says or thinks, it doesn’t matter and all that counts is what happens on the field???

in THAT case: what the hell are we all DOING here and arguing about, anyway? huh? huh??? 😉

(to be fair, I’ve said the same thing many, many times)

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:52 am

This is the beginning of our evaluation process. Once we see him on the field, we can determine whether he is more like a Patrick Mahomes or a CEH. The Chiefs should listen to us to make their roster decisions.

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 11:59 am

The Chiefs should listen to us to make their roster decisions

absolutely! after all, we know FAR more than any of them …

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:17 pm

I would not have drafted CEH and would have replaced him with Pacheco a lot sooner.

hoosierchief
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:20 pm

But… you also married your ex.

upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:22 pm

boom!

EAFOX
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 12:22 pm

In my defense, she was only 400 pounds when I married her. I do believe good sir that you have won this argument.

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:21 pm

Hmmm – I did believe in Tyler Bray,

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:22 pm

well there ya go … an admission that you’re clueless 😉

EAFOX
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:33 pm

Well, I never did tattoo his name on my body.

upamtn
Reply to  EAFOX
03/16/2023 12:42 pm

smart move

Last edited 12 days ago by upamtn
hoosierchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 12:05 pm

I get told the same thing at home by my wife. doesn’t stop me from arguing.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 11:32 am

Well he hasn’t said that he’ll only play LT like orlando. Honestly why would he care if he’s getting paid. Orlando does but that’s pretty weird (Stupid?)

Frankly orlando is not an elite LT. He’s okay.

Last edited 12 days ago by DenverDonkeyHater
upamtn
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:09 am

third best tackle in the league last year for not allowing sacks

so here’s a question: if he was the best guy on a crappy OLine and the other teams all tried to pass-rush against OTHER guys on that OLine, wouldn’t that maybe indicate that he’s not “all THAT good” and his numbers are what they are (at least partly) because he WAS “the best on a bad OLine”

hoosierchief
Reply to  upamtn
03/16/2023 11:25 am

you just caused me to have a flashback of that guy we had a few years ago that all the defenders used to run by… can’t think of his name.. or nickname.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:30 am

McSpin?

hoosierchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:31 am

THAT’S THE ONE!!! that name always cracked me up.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:36 am

Real name McGlynn?

hoosierchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 11:39 am

yup. If you were playing by him you could get injured just from the turbulence as defenders rushed by.

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 9:52 am

What’s head scratching? Veach offered him more than he was worth last year and he said f you veach. Orlando went out and played the same or worse than the previous year and Veach wasn’t going to up his offer from last year.

No way Orlando was crawling back with his tail between his legs and so he’s gone.

If Orlando had a real agent he would be playing fir the chiefs, for more money than his contract with the bungholes.

This was all Orlando,overvaluing himself and not having a real agent to put him in his place.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 9:54 am

Review guaranteed money that was offered by Chiefs vs what Cincy offered him and get back with me

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:00 am

30.5 vs 31.

hoosierchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 10:11 am

Oops. that was the bonus. I misread your statement.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 10:13 am

He was guaranteed around $44m from Cincy. After last year’s fully guaranteed tag, he will have made $60m guaranteed across 3 years after 2024 season

Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:03 am

“So in essence, Kansas City was really offering a five-year contract with an APY of $19 million.”

From the other place so I didn’t link.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 10:08 am
Last edited 12 days ago by BKSchief
DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:19 am

From your article:

“The deal also included another $14.25 million in injury guarantees, which would have converted to a full guarantee in 2024.

Brown wanted, we’re told, a $40 million signing bonus and full guarantees at signing beyond that, along with a real annual average of $25 million.”

So 52 mill guaranteed for injury.

He wanted 25 mill. He got 16. Wah wah.

BKSchief
BKSchief
Reply to  DenverDonkeyHater
03/16/2023 10:25 am

And he’s now made $60m guaranteed between 2022-2024 season.

hoosierchief
Reply to  BKSchief
03/16/2023 10:03 am

Since he’s coming from Jacksonville, he probably has some familiarity with our offence due to Doug Pederson being there. The Chiefs probably also got some input from Perderson as well. I would imagine he’s practiced a decent amount at LT in case he was needed to move over in the case of an injury.

Nasrani
Reply to  hoosierchief
03/16/2023 11:06 am

We also played JAX twice this year, and I’d be willing to wager that he was watching us play offense from the sidelines, even if not meticulously so – so he’s seen the way things work for our side of the ball, even without having done a deep-dive into the nuts and bolts of it.

But proceed with caution, as I’ve been known to be wrong when wagering.

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