Into the Afternight, Your 3rd Shift Open Thread.
57 repliesToday I learned that an offense that only scored seven points in three quarters isn’t a problem when it comes to winning games, and that firing one person will fix everything that’s wrong, even though he had nothing to do with the offense. Guess jumping out to a two-TD lead means nothing in terms of winning a game, and for the defense, playing from ahead and playing from behind is identical.
Oh, and anyone who wants to leave here because I won’t agree with them? See ya. Staff or not, I have no obligation to agree with anyone, so if you don’t like people disagreeing with you, this isn’t a place you’ll like.
What did y’all learn today, children of the night?
With that, time’s yours.
I keep getting told to shut up about the offense’s crappy play in the first half. No.
The offense played a crappy first half, which contributed a great deal to the loss. Scoring points in the first half is important in any football game, and the offense failed to do that. They even blew a shot at three points.
So, the offense only has to play well for one quarter, but if the team loses, it’s the defense’s fault? Excuse me? No. Expecting the defense to play for 60 minutes when the offense only takes care of business for 30 and blaming it on the defense isn’t reasonable or factual, and there is nothing that can be said to make me believe that the offense can phone it in for half the game and let the defense take the blame.
Three quarters of football, and the offense couldn’t even make up the 14-point deficit they allowed to happen, only getting 7 back. If we had entered into the 4th up by 7, then maybe I would blame the loss on the defense, but 7 points in 3 quarters is not acceptable.
I haven’t really been following all the comments, but I’m not really seeing anyone telling you to shut up at the moment. Maybe let’s just change topics for a while and wait and see what the morning huddle has in terms of Chiefs news?
I get that you didn’t follow the comments closely, and I understand, but do you understand that I follow my own comments more closely, and thus have more of a close-up perspective? And yeah, earlier today one member declared that if the “Sutton apologists” stayed, they wouldn’t be back. *Eyeroll* Seriously? As for this open thread, I have been told to “give it a rest”. If that’s not a “be quiet” (to put it more politely than it deserves), then what the hell is it? It ain’t an invitation for me to defend my position. It’s a call for me to be silent. No. Absolutely not. If you remember me at all from Arrowhead Pride, then you know damn well that I won’t shut up just because my opinion is unpopular. And I didn’t parody the name because I’m serious about this. That isn’t to say that my mind can’t be changed, but y’all gotta do better than cheap internet-argument tactics for that. Give me an evidence-based argument – and no, you picking a bunch of facts that “prove” your point won’t cut it – where you weigh all the facts with as little bias as possible, and if you prove me wrong, I’ll admit it. Just don’t expect me to swallow a premise untested, because I /will/ try to poke holes in your argument. My mind can be changed, but I don’t change it just because you think I’m stupid. Because despite my mental health problems, I am not stupid. And because I’m not stupid, you have to actually have an intelligent argument. Blaming the entire season on Sutton when the only loss that mattered is the last one is lame. Why? Because the offense played like ass in the first half. Telling me “that doesn’t matter” is like telling me “ignore important facts”. No, I will not do that. I will not say that the offense played championship football in the first half, because they did not do that. Everyone who said that they’d be happy if the defense just played an average game who is blaming the… Read more »
Who cares if people don’t agree with you, your entitled to your opinion & you know what they say about opinions. Don’t worry what others think BRAG do your thing
Who told you to shut up? But I do disagree with you on almost all levels of the game
Pretty disappointed in a lot of whiny fucks that act like this outcome wasn’t a possibility in their minds prior to kickoff
Yeah man. Attack the fans. That’s always a solid approach.
They’re literally the only ones whining
Did you see mahomes face during the post game interview? And did he cry like a child? He did not
He’s also 23
Losing was always a possible outcome, to me. Not one I liked or believed in, but possible.
When I was in high school, one year we had the worst-ranked team in the state, and yet, we still beat the best-ranked team in the state.
Any given Sunday.
Can’t tell if it’s the Berts tonight… but I’m starting to come back to life. 2019 kickoff needs to hurry up.
Hard to wash this taste out of my mouth without Mahomes getting back on the field. Sad we have to wait for 9 fucking months.
After the probowl*
Too soon?
Yeah. That doesn’t count. In fact I’m pretty pissed off the Chiefs are representing there.
Better than being pissed on
Also better than going 8-8 like the majority predicted
LOL.
Don’t start. The best QB to enter the NFL in 20+ years put this team on his back. 8-8 was out the window after week 3
Did I say when that was the majority opinion? We had a lot of info by week 3, much easier call then. But we can run with your bullshit and say that it wasn’t super bowl or bust even after week 3
Hey man, I’m not trying to start some argument here.
I never put a win-loss number on this season. All I knew is I was excited to see our franchise QB in action.
Sorry if I’m running some “bullshit”. That’s not my angle
Actually by week 3 I was saying to friends a AFC CG appearance is a win this season. But seeing how close it was… seeing what could have been… it stung last night bro. After seeing how good this offense and Mahomes was… it was hard to swallow.
But hey man, I’m Im not sure what I did to piss you off. I didn’t mean to. I’m just being real with where I am. Calm down brother.
I agree with this whole post
It stung
It’s hard to swallow
It happened, on to the next one
Times yours 😉
Oh and I forgot to mention, I’m not pissed off at all, at you, in general.
I’m just the rickest mother fucker you’ll ever meet and I can’t be anything but
Keep drinking that berts and you’ll likely get to experience that pissed on thing
Let me know which one you prefer
I handle my Berts just fine, thanks. What I have a harder time handling is repeated let downs by an incompetent defense.
It’s not new, we have been here before (most can’t act like it)
True enough. Hopefully Sutton is fired tomorrow and we can move on.
Yeah, especially when they are “exposed” by an incompetent offense in the AFCCG. How about we keep all the facts on the table, instead of ignoring a bunch of them in your rush to lay all the blame on one unit. The offense didn’t show up until the 4th quarter. That’s the formula to win football games? Play your offensive scrubs for 3 quarters, send out they guys who are good in the 4th, and if you lose, blame the defense? Uh, no. It doesn’t work that way. The offense let the defense down in this game, not the other way around. Zero first half points has never been a good offensive performance in the NFL. Ever, even when the team manages a comeback win. A scoreless half is the mark of failure for the offense, not the defense. Unless, of course, you are determined to blame the loss on the defense, no matter what. Then all the inconvenient facts can be brushed aside to that you can sell 6your narrative. I’m not down with brushing facts aside as though they don’t matter. I’m not denying that the defense made mistakes, I’m pointing out that the offense made more of them. Which is true, unless you decide that when the offense scores doesbn’t matter. In which case, don’t say we have an advantage having a 2-TD lead going into the half, because to you, offenses don’t have to score in the first half to win games, they can screw around for 3 quarters, put up some points in the 4th, and blame the loss on the defense. Not that our team is blaming it all on the defense, they know that the offense didn’t get it done and left the D flappin’ in the breeze. They are better-informed than the average fan, and know the loss wasn’t on the D. But those looking for a scapegoat to sacrifice don’t waqnt to hear contrary facts. They want to kill Sutton, or at least see him fired in favor of “anyone”, coaching experience or not. Yeah, no. That’s the way to disaster,… Read more »
But the facts are that we had a historically great offense & a shit defense thems is the facts also had 2 4th quarter leads & a game winning interception but…..
Switched off today, and just reflected. I find my skin is a little thicker. It’s been conditioned from years past. There’s a bunch of excuses, and it’s really easy to finger point. But Damnit when it comes down to it, we were right there and couldn’t finish. Ouch.
Still the Chiefs had a mighty season. Far better than I predicted. We have one hell of a team! And we will be dominate for years to come. That’s the good news. I look forward to the future.
2018 Chiefs division winners, 1st seed, made it to the AFC championship game! That’s a pretty good haul.
Thank you Arrowhead Guys staff. I know today was difficult but you stepped up. Keep up the good work.
Not to mention that our guys delivered a home playoff win. It’s been a while on that, but the team delivered a win.
Of course, there’s still people griping about home losses in the playoffs, due to re4cency bias, but they did win a playioff game at home.
Bit of a booby prize? Sure, no doubt about it, but those saying “typical Chiefs, lose a playoff game at home” are ignoring the fact that they won one at home. After a quarter century without doing that, and they did it – and now that doesn’t count? Unbelievable denial of facts.
We have a bright future ahead. This year wasn’t “wasted”, it was invested, and because of that, I think we are ahead of where we were at this point last post-season. Much as I like Smith, we finally actually have a franchise QB, and he’s the hottest in the NFL. Not perfect, last loss demonstrates that, but he’s a guy who you can build around, and the offense was kinda good this year, and most of them will be around next year.
Preach! Your so right man! Pissed me off earlier today when someone pinned this whole game on Ford. It was a team effort. Personally after a bit of reflection, it was one good game! We went toe to toe with the goat in a huge game!
I like your style BRAG!
Yep, we didn’t handle the game well, but trying to find a central focus for it’s just a bit futile. Blaming the entire loss on Ford’s offsides penalty is dumb. Like we would have won if KPass had stepped in for Ford? Please.
As for your compliment, thank you, appreciate the vote of confidence – but I seem to have more critics than boosters, at the moment. Not that they bother me much, in the long run, but some folks tend to carry “friend of my enemy” attitudes a bit too far.
My message? Take what I have to say with a grain of salt, keep in mind that I have little tolerance for excluding relevant facts, but ultimately, think for yourself. Don’t follow me blindly, think things through.
You’re smart enough for that. Just stop a moment, so you can look at all the facts, and not just the ones that support your argument. Do that, and I’ll likely have something to say, but if you have all the relevant facts on the table and are taking them all seriously, I will listen seriously.
So thanks, 4QM, but don’t take my word as gospel. Think for yourself, and if you think I’m wrong, and have all the facts at hand, then I expect you to argue with me. Please.
Actually BRAG, I think you, Tony and the other “staff” have been pretty amazing over the last 24 hours. I’m pretty thick skinned and phlegmatic but if I’d been on the receiving end of some of those comments and I’d been in the position to do so there would have been fewer people in this site.
So hats off and thanks to you all
Thank you, SB, very kind of you to say that. Much appreciated.
My mental health issues have been all over me, so I’ve worked hard at maintaining a relatively even keel, but yeah, some of the comments are frustrating, to put it mildly. So I appreciate the support, but Tony’s the real deserving fellow, not me.
And hey, just to try to brighten things, Sorensen had a pretty good game, didn’t he? Not perfect, but the INT and 4th down stops were big.
Mahomes proved he can go toe to toe with a living legend. If the defense just gets a little better… we are an absolute powerhouse and the class of the AFC.
Personally, I think if Berry had been available (or early on, replaceable) for the season, we’d have won this, even with the offense not showing up for 3 quarters of the game.
Of course you could argue that if we started the second half tied at 14, the outcome would be the same, if you wish. Plenty of people doing just that, after all.
But yeah, you’re basically right. With Mahomes under center, our future is bright. Hopefully next year the defense improves – but if they pull a scoreless first half again, expect me to roast the offense for it. They will have deserved it.
Man, after last night I don’t think many people nationally think KC won’t be back. That was the best AFCCG in 15 years. Against a perennial SB team… the Pats and Brady. It was an epic game. The way it went into OT, the way Mahomes lead us back in the final minutes… this is a team that is right on that cusp. They’ll be back. Everyone KNOWS that.
I guess I’m starting to look forward to off season stuff, draft, free agency, coaching speculation, etc.
I don’t think I’ll be able to watch the Super Bowl. Be interesting to see how many AGers will actually watch it.
Im hoping for meteor strike the 3rd. Im not watching Brady take a dive to help the league cram Los Angeles down my damn throat some more.
You’re telling me, including this super bowl, 3 of the big 4’s championships involved 1 California team, and Vegas got a pass because they were an expansion team.
I also officially hate Boston, I got a former co-worker who was just the most annoying Red Sox/Pats/Celtics fan and it makes me puke knowing atleast one of them will make their finals every season for some reason. Being a KC sports fan is so much more difficult (but the wins I hope are sweeter)
The sweetness isn’t comparable and that’s one of the things we have to look forward to, it’s coming. If you read between the lines Andy basically guaranteed a super bowl berth in his post game pc
What stands out to me is that he’s not anywhere close to the type of guy to make a claim like that
I agree that Andy wouldn’t “basically guarantee” a SB victory this year. He might heavily imply it, but after this season (unless they fire Sutton and take a step back), he has plenty of reason to do so. This team’s pretty damn good, you know.
Still, I’ll have to watch it before I can get a read on how strongly he implied it, but if he had actually said “Next year, we will win the Super Bowl, you’d have said that, so it’s a matter of interpretation. Not saying you interpreted it wrongly, mind you, but until I watch it, I have no way of being sure.
But if he strongly implied that this team’ll be ready to make another legit run at the SB? That’s justified. This is a damn good team.
BUCK FOSTON AND CUCK FALIFORNIA AND ALL THESE LEAGUES THAT THROW INTEGRITY OF SPORT TO THE WIND TO CATER TO CERTAIN POPULATION AREAS AND FAN BASES BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM MORE MONEY, I HATE THEM ALL.
^basically me
Go Rams.
I’ll watch. No party. No cool dinner though. It’s just another game IMO.
I never, ever want a Pats victory though. They can burn in hell where they belong.
So I’m thinking that the over/under for the majority of discussions to revert to relatively civil as opposed to virulantly aggressive is 36 hours. So around early morning tomorrow. Any opinions?
Seems abvout right,, though some people will recover faster than others.
I’m mostly over it, though it still hurts some. Only thing left is getting annoyed at people who believe that 1 TD in 3 quarters is the mark of a great offense, so they can blame it all on the defense.
Both units had problems, but I’d say that only scoring seven when the D holds them to 14 over 3 quarters of the game is indicative of an offense that didn’t carry their end of the deal, but should have all that ignored because they finally showed up in the 4th quarter. Yeah, no. Football doesn’t work that way, where one side gets to loaf while the other’s busting ass.
It’s a team game, and that was most definitely a team loss. The offense didn’t show up until it was too late. So blame it all on the defense, because that’s what makes sense. Except that it doesn’t make sense to blame it all on the unit that actually played a better game.
It’s the third batter to strike out in the bottom of the 9th who loses the game. No one else did anything wrong, not even the previous two strike-outs. The only bad player on the team was the last one to strike out, and nothing else matters. Yeah, that’s perfectly logical. Call the first two outs innocent, and blame it all on the last guy. Fire him, and everything gets better.
Strange that the MLB doesn’t fire players who are the last out in a losing effort, though. It’s almost as if they realize that blaming the last batter for every loss is stupid. Why don’t they realize that it’s only the LAST mistake in a game that counts?
Right on!
As I believe I said in another thread I think the main issue is that we got outcoached. On both sides of the ball. I don’t think that the Pats players are significantly better than ours and in some cases we are definitely in front.
Now, I can take that. Hoodie is arguably the best coach in the game. McDaniels, for all I think he’s an absolute douchebag is also a top tier OC. Again, I can take that and it’s a valid reason for a game to be so close that a single mistake (looking at you Mr Ford but you certainly weren’t the only one) can have a catastrophic affect.
What I can’t put up with is the number of times the defense has been outcoached this season. A competent professional should be able to see the weaknesses and work to alleviate them. To my untrained eye this didn’t happen on the ‘D’ until week 13/14. This is magnified by the abrupt retreat from the winning formula that he finally found and the return to the ‘good old ways’ – which gave Brady ample time to pick apart the secondary.
So no, I’m not blaming a single individual for the loss, nor am I calling for heads to roll because of it. I’m calling for a replacement based on the body of work over the last 2 seasons.
Later breaking thought. I do get the argument that the FO is contributing to the problem by the player selection. However, the GM is Andy’s tame pet so he’s not going anywhere, so the DC has to either learn how to influence the GM better, learn how to create a working defense with the players he’s getting or look for another job.
If you are calling for Sutton’s head because of the outcomes of the last two seasons, I’m OK with that, just don’t pretend that Bob blew the game on Sunday, because he didn’t. His defense held the Patsies to just two TDs for three quarters. In all that time, all the offense could do is put up 7. Were we outcoached? Sure, I can go with that, but what’s the solution, fire Reid, like there’s a big pool of highly successful HCs looking for work? Fire Sutton because the offense didn’t play well in the first 3 quarters? Yeah, right. it’s Sutton’s fault that the offense couldn’t do much across 3/4ths of the game. And I will say once again that upgrading from Sutton’s a chancy thing, because it’s not as easy to do that as the “ANYBODY would be better than Sutton!” seems to believe. No, anybody would not be better than Sutton – most especially those who are yelling the loudest for him to be fired, as though that solves everything. I’m ok with Sutton getting fired, BTW, but I think there’s a real possibility that this off-season, the best option for our DC is Sutton himself. Depends on who’s available and willing, but making the water boy the DC is a recipe for disaster. So if they don’t see an available replacement, I’m ok with another year of Bob. Not happy about it, mind you, just ok. But I also know that if Sutton gets fired, the way the anti-Bobs are demanding, and his replacement is worse, only a tiny minority is going to admit that firing Sutton was the wrong move. Instead, they will shift the blame to Veach, despite him doing as they demanded. Because every last one of them will “know” that some other candidate would have done better. If Sutton gets canned, and his replacement is worse, just watch for the lack of admissions that they were wrong vs. accusations that it’s Veach’s fault, for not choosing the loser they preferred. Now, if Sutton’s fired and his replacement IS an upgrade, I’ll be… Read more »
Dude give it a rest, why must you be right about where 51% of the blame rests? Who gives a shit
We started a new game in overtime and the offense didn’t get to see the field
Both sides sucked at times, all that matters is that we lost and while everyone is trying to pin it on the O or D mostly based on what “camp” they were from far before this game. Everyone is forgetting there’s another phase and that this is a this is a team game.
You win nothing for being right, if you could convince anyone that you were/are. Pats still in the super bowl
I will give it a rest when the “It’s ALL Sutton and the defense’s fault we lost” give it a rest. Go tell them to stop ignoring the fact that the offense didn’t get it done, because they didn’t, not until it was too late. Fire Sutton for “blowing the game”, I don’t care, but let’s not pretend that the defense lost the game all by themselves. The offense owns a big chunk of that loss. I don’t care precisely where it’s placed, but the offense’s failures were not trivial, just because they mounted a comeback effort at the end. How’sabout you get /those/ people to give it a rest, seeing as it’s completely non-factual? The offense crapped the bed for over half the game, but it’s the defense’s fault we lost? Yeah, no. So yeah, when the offense played 3 quarters of crappy football, I’m not gonna blame it all on Sutton, or the defense, or Dee Ford. When people quit pretending that the offense is blameless in that loss, I’ll quit calling them on it. I’ll give it a rest when those idiots do. Starting the second half down by 14 is a disadvantage, and that’s the offense’s fault, not the defense, because the offense scored nothing in the first half. At one point, they were in FG range, but they blew that, too. I don’t demand that the offense get 51% of the blame. I simply object to them getting 100% of the excuses from people who hate Sutton. The offense sucked for most of the game, and that’s a fact. They gave up points in the first half. I’ll give it a rest when those who deny that it was a /team/ loss give their stupidity a rest. Go talk to them, and get them to shut up, because I won’t stop speaking against those who feel that their squishy feelings are more important than the totality of the facts. I had to say “totality”, because the feelz set might jump pn the statement with all of their cherry-picked facts and arguments that contrary facts don’t… Read more »
Of course the offense is not blameless, the o line was horrible and mahomes missed a few throws to start the game
That wasn’t directed only at you, either side that feels there’s something to gain by convincing someone that their side should harbor less blame
As far as bob sutton, his scheme isn’t getting it done. Everyone can see when it’s real easy for opposing offenses and the pats blatantly pointed that out and specifically how that took one of our biggest advantages (HFA, crowd noise) out of the game. Something I’ve never ever heard before
Dude look at the big picture not just this game the past 2 seasons this Defense has shit the bed that’s the point it’s not just this game did the offense struggle hell yeah they did. But in the 4th quarter we took the lead cause the offense got it figured out but the defense struggled to get off the field just like they have all season. It’s a team game so I’m with you on that but we need to do something different on the defensive side of the ball. Also I think BB out coached Reid & co.
I don’t think anyone would be calling for Sutton’s departure based on just this game. He’s developed a fairly consistent history that speaks for itself.
Now that’s a different question than how it’s all Sutton’s fault we lost that last game.
I’d like to upgrade from Sutton, actually, because of the last two seasons (not the “consistent history” that you claim), but the simple fact remains that in the replacement pool, there are more downgrades than upgrades. Picking the upgrade isn’t as easy as the Anti-Bobs seem to think.
It may be that the best candidate for the DC position is…Sutton himself. That won’t make me happy, but I don’t want Sutton fired just because a bunch of ignorant fans irrationally hate him personally. If an upgrade is available, grab him. If not, don’t fire Sutton and replace him with someone worse just because ignorrant fans believe anybody on the face of the Earth would be a better DC than Sutton. That’s factually untrue.
The offense only managed to score 7 points across 3 quarters. Why is this a good performance by them?
Clearly that’s a huge part of it