Why The Dirty Dan Hate?

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Chris asks why so many Chiefs fans don’t seem to care much for “Dirty” Dan Sorenson

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Undrafted out of Brigham Young University in 2014, Daniel Sorensen has been a Safety for the Kansas City Chiefs going on 6 years now. If you have ever wondered the type of impact Andy Reid has on players, take a look at this quote from after Sorensen did not hear his named called on draft day in 2014:

After going undrafted, Sorensen received calls and offers from multiple teams, but stated he chose to accept the Chiefs’ offer because they showed they really wanted him by having head coach Andy Reid call him personally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sorensen

Sorensen would soon find his way to One Arrowhead Drive and sign a 2 year contract worth $930,000 on May 11th, 2014. He was understandably buried on the depth chart, but slowly started to appear more as his career went on. We all know he missed a significant part of last season due to a knee injury. Below are #49’s career stats:

YearGamesGames StartedInterceptionsPasses DefendedForced FumblesSacksCombined Tackles
Career Total:631851623.5191
20149000007
20151600201.016
20161613621.054
201715141601.588
201874120026

While the numbers aren’t flashy, for an undrafted player the club felt Sorensen had certainly became a contributor on the D, enough that before the 2017 season this happened:

On March 11, 2017, the Kansas City Chiefs signed Sorensen to a four-year, $16 million contract extension that includes a $4 million signing bonus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sorensen

After Eric Berry tore his Achilles tendon during the first game of the 2017 season, Sorensen became a starter and had a career high 88 tackles. Sharing the Safety duties with Ron Parker, for the most part he held his own, until the knee injury derailed the start of his 2018 season. Activated from the IR in early November last year, #49 would again slowly work his way back to the starting lineup, then put together a dominant showing in the playoffs for the team. Yet not all fans are sold on Daniel making the roster this season.

Seeing as how the Chiefs no longer have Defensive Coordinator Bob Sutton and Eric Berry has been released, is it possible that Sorensen is the next player to hit the road? Juan Thornhill has been having a strong showing at camp, but do they turn the rookie loose as a starter alongside Tyrann Mathieu?

If this is the end of the road for Sorensen in a Kansas City Chiefs jersey, I just want to leave it with one highlight here:

So Arrowhead Guys and Gals, when it comes to Dirty Dan, is the hate justified?

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dablueguy
dablueguy

He’s slow and can’t tackle. It’s amazing the number of tackles he either outright whiffs on, or tackles when they’re past him. Other than that, no problems.

ArrowheadRed
ArrowheadRed

Daniel Sorensen is not good. If he had gone to Michigan State, he wouldn’t be on this team. He is a wasted roster spot, and I do not like that he gets carried year after year. Chiefs have 4 Safeties better. He should be traded or released, but I doubt Brother Reid lets that occur.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan

I trust the coaches judgment on this one. He has been the best tackler in our secondary by a long shot.

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

Yeah he’s not Bernard Pollard back there, he certainly misses his fair share, which needs to be addressed.

upamtn

yanno what? I actually LIKE Sorenson … granted he’s not the best, not the fastest, but the dude can ball out … and he does a lot of things that the coaches love (he’s The Enforcer) … considering how sad the LB and CB groups have looked lately, I’ll take a bunch of Dirty Dans just for the hustle and hard hitting

KCChef
KCChef

A Harry Kuntz Production : )

( I Sh!t You Not … : )

ArrowFan
ArrowFan

name me one DB in the NFL that doesn’t get fooled here. That is just how great PM is.

ArrowFan
ArrowFan

After watching Sorensen is covering what looks like the right man it was someone else in coverage that should have had the TE.

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Anyone else think in the clip above he was maybe trying to hit the ball out and sense it didn’t play out that way it looks like he was trying to all out cheap shot the hell out of someone in the back?

zulu trader
zulu trader

I hope you’re wrong

Shot Mayweather GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

No hugging allowed.

Berserker

He doesn’t cover receivers at an average level, and he doesn’t defend the run at an above-average level, and he gets paid like somebody who should be able to do at least one of those things.

Improve his coverage, improve his run defense, or lower his pay. Do any one of those things, and we’ll be good.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

But BYUUU FOOTBALL

Leaf
Leaf

comment image

tsv0728
tsv0728

There is no disconnect. He is paid like a lower tier starter, and plays like a medium tier backup. Hence “hate”. If he was paid 1.3mil to be the 4th safety on the roster, no one would be talking smack. Fans “hated” Ford too, because he was a high pick and didn’t meet expectations. It’s the nature of the beast. When your performance doesn’t meet fans expectations they get on you. His expectations were set by his contract, fairly or unfairly, so we get on him. That elbow drop was fucking epic though.

MasterChief
MasterChief

Can’t forget one of the greatest Chiefs action shots ever.comment image

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

Nice! I tried finding the video where he laid out the Broncos WR on the sideline a few years ago but couldn’t find it.

Tyrone

This would have been one of the coolest sacks ever if he stuck it.

KCChef
KCChef

Nate’s Defensive Review showed Dan affecting a play , just not “Clinching the Deal ” … A Microcosm of his career here IMHO …

kaiser1118
kaiser1118

Sorensen is a good depth player, but he is a liability when you have to ask him to cover opponent’s best player. He is great in blitzing roles and STs, but as a cover safety, he is a liability.

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

Which he shouldn’t be much of a liability this season if we can expect big things from Thornhill. I hope Thornhill turns out to be Veach’s big pick this year on the defense.

venturachief
venturachief

Going to have to be. I think Khalen will take a year or two to acclimate.

Spider
Spider

Dan got a lot of hate for not being a HEALTHY Eric Berry and most people didn’t realize that the wheels had fallen off Ron Parker until the following year because Bob was using Sorensen out of position because the alternative was worse. Meanwhile, they all want to give Sutton’s scheme credit for Hitchens and Ragland being too slow. Nah, the Sorensen sucks meme is lazy and for fans that don’t know how to watch film.

ArrowheadRed
ArrowheadRed

Sorensen Sucks. He needs to go.

BleedingRedAndGold

I think the hate largely stems from Monday-morning GMing, confirmation bias, and over-compartmentalization to the point where it’s almost Doublethink. The first two are pretty routine, characterized by the belief that the fan doing them believes that they can make better decisions with far less information than the GM in question and the tendency for folks to latch on hard to things that confirm their opinions while discounting anything that goes against them.

The last item is common human behavior as well, but it’s less discussed, so I’m dropping down for it. To use this instance as an example, in broad terms it’s completely possible to believe that the D sucked, Sorensen sucked, and Sutton sucked, all independent of each other. Problem is, they’re actually interdependent, and with different levels of influence going to and fro between them. Dan’s the least influential and most influenced of the three, so pretend that he’s inherently bad on his own is silly.

tsv0728
tsv0728

What is it you would have us do on a Chiefs blog? All things Chiefs are interdependent. We cannot suss out the “truth” of any specific part of the program, because we don’t have access too all of the pieces. All we can do is talk about what we see. I can’t know if Dan was out of position because Bob sucked, or because our LB sucked or because he sucks (or presumably some compilation of all 3). I just want him to not suck so much, and he continues to disappoint. I CAN know that when he lines up for that big ‘ol hit stick and whiffs time and time again, it’s on him.

BleedingRedAndGold

What would I have people do? Same as they have been doing, obviously, because I’m not in charge of anything. Do I get to express an opinion, as well? Equally obvious.

I can also know that if Sutton made him try to “be” Eric Berry when Sorensen stepped into the position, his play would likely degrade, at least somewhat, but trying to do things he wasn’t good at. I’m not saying that Dan’s actually elite or anything, just that he’s probably noticeably better than his detractors say he is, with the proper coaching and role. As for “he lines up for that big ‘ol hit stick and whiffs time and time again”, looks to me like you have a case of confirmation bias going. According to PFF, he was pretty good in ’17, though perhaps not great. If he’s whiffing left and right, he couldn’t be rated like that. *Shrug* Not a huge deal to me, because they will do what they will do at 1 A dr., and from a much more informed position.

kcfreak725
kcfreak725

People don’t see him as a starting caliber player, which is why there is so much hate, imo. He kills isn’t on ST and he does great when he’s brought in on subpackages. He’s just not starting caliber, imo

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

Which is why having the Honey Badger in town, with Thornhill hopefully emerging, Dirty Dan can go back to being a role player. But as mentioned below his cap hit is going to be a huge point of contention against him.

kcfreak725
kcfreak725

His price tag is way high, I agree.

Leaf
Leaf

Not really. We pay honey badger what, 14 mil a year. I think fan is worth 10 mil less.

kcfreak725
kcfreak725

But if he were to assume the role player position, wouldn’t that still be a little high?

Leaf
Leaf

Not for a third safety that actually sees a fair amount of play time.

BleedingRedAndGold

How high is it really, though? Taking the contract total and dividing it by years seldom tells the tale because few players play out their entire contracts, once they’er past the rookie one. How much is back-loaded is relevant to that question.

venturachief
venturachief

I think part of the hate is due to people looking at cap info and seeing he has an almost $5M cap hit every year. He’s an ok player that is overpaid on a defense that has been really bad the last few years. DB’s are also the position that most fans can see….they are exposed. It’s harder to see the mistakes of someone like Bailey who was also way overpaid but more under the radar.

Leaf
Leaf

This is the majority of problem. That and he played waaay too much in 2017 because of injuries so his limitations were highlighted. before that he was hardly ever mentioned as he did, as his name implies, the “dirty” work. And dirty work rarely gets recognized. But when we ran out of safeties and Bob tried to force his square peg into a round hole, the stigma around him plummeted.

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

I am hoping he can rebound this year. He balled out in the AFCCG.

tsv0728
tsv0728

He had 2 big plays and sucked the rest of the game, so did pretty much everyone else, but he did not in any way ball out.

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

2 big plays, in the Championship game is really good. How many did EB29 have…

tsv0728
tsv0728

EB got cut, rightfully so…Dan should too. (unless he wants to take a 2.5mil pay cut).

Leaf
Leaf

You guys act like $5 mil means something nowadays. That’s not all that crazy of a contract for solid depth. And that’s what he is. Expecting All pro play at $5 mil only happens on rookie contacts.

Berserker

Who’s expecting All Pro at $5 mil?

Berserker

Some players on not-rookie contracts who have a lower cap hit than Sorensen this year:
Chad Henne
X. Williams
Cam Erving
Dustin Colquitt
Alex Okafor
Carlos Hyde
Jordan Lucas
Bashaud Breeland
Damien Wilson
Darron Lee

Berserker

And here is every Chief who has a higher cap hit than Sorensen this year:
Tyrann Mathieu
Mitchell Schwartz
Frank Clark
LDT
Anthony Hitchens
Travis Kelce
Eric Fisher
Sammy Watkins

With the obvious sore-thumb exception of Hitchens, does this group of highest paid Chiefs seem like it should have Dan Sorensen in it?

Leaf
Leaf

I don’t give two shits where someone ranks compared to others. I only care of its a fair deal. $5 mil just isn’t all that big of a deal nowadays. That’s $10 mil less than Tyrann. For a third string safety, that seems fair.

Berserker

Then how do you judge what’s fair? “Seems fair?” What the f does “seems fair” even mean? Fair compared to what?

Leaf
Leaf

I already gave my comparison. If our top safety gets around $14 mil, how is the third string, that still plays a fair amount of downs, getting a third of that a big deal? It shouldn’t be.

Berserker

So you don’t think Mathieu is more than 3 times more valuable than Sorensen. So, why not? How do you come to that conclusion?

DenverDonkeyHater
DenverDonkeyHater

I think you need to compare his salary to other safeties. Hes 23rd as far as cap hit this year out of both free and strong safeties. So is he in the top 3rd of safeties in the league? No.

That being said, now that he’s at the end of his contract it doesnt look as bad. I figured hed get cut like Jah Reid 2 weeks after he signed a multi year deal and wed be paying dead cap for years on a guy who never contributed.

Leaf
Leaf

There are tons of examples of players being over paid and underpaid. Therefore ranking means shit to me. Everyone seems to think honey badger is at least pretty close to worth what he got paid. Is the skill gap between Dan and Tyrann worth getting $10 mil less? Yes it is. That seems to be pretty close to about right. Could be be getting an extra mil then he’s worth? Sure, but we aren’t hurting for cap space so I could care less getting paid a little bit more. Someone is going to get that money. To me, $5 mil for a solid depth player, regardless of position, that plays a decent amount of time seems pretty fair.

Leaf
Leaf

And he’ll play more than most of those guys. I fail to see much of an issue.

Berserker

Just to pick one name from that list, our #1CB is going to cost less than our #3 safety.

You’re not failing to see, you’re failing to think about what you see.

Leaf
Leaf

Our #1 CB is on a prove it deal after injury. Dan has proven to be solid depth and a solid STer. If Breeland is still on the team next year, I doubt he makes less then Dan. If he does, he should fire his agent and hire Dan’s

And I’ve thought about this quite a bit. Just don’t see things the same way as some of you guys.

Berserker

Sorensen has proven to be worth less than Breeland. A “solid depth and ST” player does not rate more pay than a designated #1CB, regardless whether said CB is on a prove-it deal or not.

I do believe that you’ve thought quite a bit about how to defend the position that Sorensen is worth his pay. I don’t believe you’ve given much actual thought at all to whether Sorensen is actually worth his pay.

Tyrone

If you had all 53 players on 5 mil you’d be 30% over the salary cap.

Fire_FG_the_moron
Fire_FG_the_moron

NO, its unfair. He does his job on ST too. He is known to flat out lay a hit too. If a certain someone isnt offsides in the AFCCG, Dan’s INT stands and the Chiefs go to SB. He gets it done mostly. Mostly as in WHEN USED PROPERLY. I dont fault him for that TD in LA. Sutton had him out there in a CB role.

venturachief
venturachief

He was covering the TE. That seems like a reasonable role.

jmgunn0124
jmgunn0124

Ward had the int that was negated by Ford going offsides. Unless you’re referring to a different one.

Berserker

Ward’s INT.

Tony Sommer

He’s quality depth, so as long as he isn’t starting I’m fine with him being on the team.

CHIEFSandSABRES
CHIEFSandSABRES

Same here. I don’t think he gets cut this year.

StramtoReid
StramtoReid

If I understand correctly, the dead money is 2 million this year, and 1 million next year if he gets cut. I’m actually feeling good about the safety position this year, and believe we still need dirty Dan. He might be a cap casualty next year.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

I dont necessarily hate the player-especially if he’s a 3/4 safety.

I do hate the money.

Berserker

But money loves you!