Brett Veach, Boom or Bust? The Debate: Our Conclusions

 96 replies

Nate and Anthony debate whether Brett Veach is earning his keep as the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs

Welcome back for the Conclusion of the big debate as Nate and Tony continue to butt heads over GM Brett Veach. We now look at Veach’s history when it comes to trades.

Introduction

Nate: Overall, I really like Brett Veach as a general manager. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. I have made it clear many times I don’t love many moves that Veach has made over the past two offseasons as general manager. Still, he does a really good job at finding lower level talent, and building depth on this roster. If you compare the Chiefs overall depth of this roster compared to John Dorsey’s teams, I think Veach has done way better at finding talent. Overall, I think this is the best overall 90 man roster that has come into training camp in Chiefs history, and a lot of that is due to Brett Veach being a good general manager.

Anthony: I think overall Brett Veach has done a poor job of being a general manager since being promoted to the position for the Chiefs. His drafting has been poor, his contracts questionable, and his trades have been downright bad. He has put together a solid roster for the short term by going on spending sprees both in cap space and draft capital, something that any armchair GM could accomplish without the slightest scouting or negotiating skills, while receiving the ultimate gift in Patrick Mahomes via John Dorsey’s MVP trade in 2017. However while I do foresee immediate success for the team, I also see a team that has thrown the only proven model for building a dynasty out the window; that is by building through the draft.

Embed from Getty Images

Need to catch up? We got the links you need!

Part 1: The Draft

Part 2: Free Agency

Part 3: Trades

Conclusion

Nate: In conclusion, I am a Brett Veach fan. Is he perfect? No way. I think Veach has made many poor, premature moves. I hate the Speaks and Hardman trade up ideas. I hated getting rid of Peters. Still, most of his moves he has made either haven’t been terrible, or turn out to be decent. If you are a guy that believes in getting 1-2 stars each draft, John Dorsey is your guy. I will give him credit. He drafted Dee Ford, Patrick Mahomes, Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, and Chris Jones. All of these guys are stars in this league. Has Veach really drafted a star yet? Not really. But I still like Veach’s ability in the draft, finding more depth. I think Veach also does a great job of managing cap. We all like to dog on Dorsey about how poorly he managed the cap, and he truly did. Veach has gotten the cap situation to be more manageable, for sure. Overall, do I think he is perfect? No. But as long as he can continue to find depth in great spots, while finding 3-4 contributors each year in the draft, the Chiefs will be good for a very long time.

This is the best 90 man roster the Chiefs have ever brought into training camp. Does Dorsey deserve a ton of credit for it? Absolutely. But Brett Veach deserves more. Veach has said goodbye to many of the old faces under Dorsey. Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Justin Houston, Dee Ford, and Marcus Peters are gone. This entire defense is different. And, to me, it looks significantly better.

I hope that in one year we will talk about how we just won the Super Bowl and how Veach deserves a ton of credit for building this roster. If we don’t reach the Super Bowl, and it is due to the personnel decisions of the front office, then I will criticize Veach. As of right now though, I really like Veach, and I think we got a budding general manager.

Embed from Getty Images

Anthony: I am not impressed. Your legacy as a GM is defined by what you do in the draft and Veach, by both our accounts, has not impressed in the one department he was billed to be a genius: college scouting. It doesn’t take one shred of skill to identify veteran players as talented and out-bidding the highest bidder is only an indictment that you likely paid too much. So while Veach has built a talented roster, its not a result of him being a good GM; its from spending more than anyone else was willing to give, something that most years would be viewed in a very negative light. But Patrick Mahomes shines bright over this organization.

Knowing he’s been gifted a franchise quarterback he’s gone all in on his spending spree, signing players and trading away draft picks to make up for his lackluster scouting. He has set the Chiefs up for a nice 3-4 year window to be highly competitive in the quest for a championship. But even though Brett Veach may end up buying himself a Super Bowl or two in the next few years, he has likely prohibited the team from beginning the run of a dynasty by drafting poorly, making splash trades, and handing out multiple market setting contracts.

In 3-4 years many of the players he has signed will likely need to be cut to fit other ie. Mahomes’ ballooning salaries under the cap. The associated dead money will be prohibitive to signing other high priced veterans, and the draft picks selected in the 2018 and 2019 draft will also become free agents after having spent their entire rookie contracts buried on the depth chart behind big money acquisitions. It will be at this time the words ‘rebuild’ and ‘retool’ will start coming out of Arrowhead. In a future where Mahomes wears a couple Super Bowl rings, we’ll all buckle down for a rough couple years. In a future without those rings, we’ll be looking to fire Brett Veach, but it’ll already be too late.

Where do you stand on Brett Veach’s drafts, free agent signings and trades at the conclusion of this debate?


96
Leave a Reply

Please Login to comment
10 Comment threads
86 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
22 Comment authors
NHChiefsfanStramtoReidspiderwomn69Spiderchiefshabs Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
StramtoReid
StramtoReid

I believe the reason the reason either Kelce. Watkins, or Hill was opened early because Mahomes spreads the field vertically and horizontally so that helps the receivers and the O-line, so if everybody stays healthy were in pretty good shape on offense. I would start looking for a starting OT and TE.

On defense I don’t know what to expect and it looks like were going to replace a lot of players on defense in the next few years, so we have to be perfect in the draft the next 2 or 3 years.

Since this article is about opinions, I have to say Veach cost us a Super Bowl by not having a good secondary last year, I’m not a Sutton fan but he was dealt a shifty hand when he came to the secondary last year. We can blame Ford for being offsides, but if we had a better secondary it wouldn’t have matter if Ford was offsides.

Veach has made a lot a mistakes in free agency and in the draft, but he can redeem himself if the Chiefs win a Super Bowl in the next two years. I love that he is trying to win now, I can live with a three year transition period if we win a Super Bowl

stjoechief
stjoechief

The jury is still out for me on Veach. How Ragland and Hitchens look in the new system, whether Watkins plays up to his contract, and how Speaks/Watts/DOD look this year will go a long way to solidify my opinion.

Overall I still would rather have Ballard as GM but I don’t hate Veach—yet.

Mobberino
Mobberino

Tony, I get what you’re saying to an extent, but spending and trading like a drunken sailor is exactly what you should be doing with the best QB in football basically playing for free.

Not every deal or signing is going to work out as a 10/10 but you can afford some swings and misses when you spend nothing on QB and get All-Pro performance. That means you should be swinging pretty damn wildly.

The offense and the defense both had top tier talent all over last year. The defensive coaching totally squandered that talent in every way possible, but it’s not like they didn’t have pieces. As was pointed out over and over, we spent far more on the defense than we did on the offense.

In a single offseason that very salary heavy defense has basically all been replaced, mostly with comparable talent. It remains to be seen if “bad” moves from last year will look better with a completely different scheme and competent coaching staff.

Remember, in Dorsey’s last year here we cut a third round pick in Week 1. No GM is perfect or even close to it. But its hard to look at this roster and not be impressed with the collection of talent.

We can worry about the 2023 Chiefs with Mahomes making $50 million when we get there. Only a very small number of players are going to make it from this team to that one, anyway, and I don’t see what you’re talking about with the dead money concerns in several years. In 2022 only Frank Clark and Hitchens have any significant dead cap, and signing Ford or another pass rusher instead would have yielded a similar number.

Leaf
Leaf

Anthony: I am not impressed.

comment image

QuackTastic
QuackTastic

It doesn’t take one shred of skill to identify veteran players as talented and out-bidding the highest bidder is only an indictment that you likely paid too much.

Definitely disagree. Not one shred? So no credit for guys like Cam Erving? If Honey Badger completely turns this defense around, Veach gets no credit? But if he turns out to be a complete bust, then we all get to shit on him for it? Can’t have it both ways.

Free agent success rate is not very high, across the league. Most FA’s don’t live up to their hype, but some certainly end up being steals. So you’re telling me it takes not ‘one shred of skill’ to discern the former from the latter? Again, it’s much too early to be able to assess Veach’s FA moves so far, and while I understand if you’re doubtful overall about Veach (which is a fair opinion to have), it’s much too soon to be so strongly pessimistic.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Agree way too early to have all these takes.

zulu trader
zulu trader

It feels like Tony wants a great team now and a guarantee that Veatch builds a decade long dynasty, in order to give him the 5-star

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Its unreal.

CHIEFSandSABRES

It is what we should expect. With the roster Veach got, we should expect nothing less than dominance.

NHChiefsfan
NHChiefsfan

The roster Veach got actually had quite a few holes and a lot of depth issues. All you have to do is look at the turn-over from the last two years.

Berserker
Berserker

I’d give Veach credit for signing Mathieu, if he’d signed Mathieu last year when he should have.

If Veach had done that, then there’s a very good possibility that he’d not only have my credit, but also a Superbowl ring.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Good taek &, imo, a legit rookie mistake on Veach’s part.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

So if the Chiefs win 2 Super bowls in the next 4 years and then have to retool some you’ll be upset? Wild take.

So many hot takes after a 2019 draft that looks better than 2018 and the 2018 players only having one year under their belt. You have no idea if the 2018 picks will be buried in the depth chart. Nnandi, Smith, and DOD look like solid picks. Watts flashed potential until getting hurt. I’ll give Speak this year to see how he is. He was getting better throughout the year until benched when starters were healthy.

BoJest
BoJest

I’ll agree Veach is good at building depth. The problem with that is is that depth means fill-ins and back-ups. He may be good at picking on the low end of the draft but sucks at the top end where it is needed. When the second round is your first pick, you take an impact player not a project. Specially when you have several positions of need and that’s not one of them. Oh…and trading up for it also. You can’t fill the starters out with FA’s because you can’t pay everyone. I believe in 3-4 years the Chiefs will be in contract hell. As I see it…Veach is worse in drafting (yes Dorsey had his flobs also) and has the possibility to be worse in contracts.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Dorsey is king of contract hell. Let me know how the Browns look in two years. Dorsey could hit on a star here or there, but his drafts were rough. How is that 2nd round pick Tanoh doing? Tanoh is a major bust. Veach’s draft this year is an improvement over last and the depth is so solid on the team.

Berserker
Berserker

How do we know whether “Veach’s draft this year is an improvement over last?” Didn’t you complain about too-early taeks somewhere else on this thread?

NM_ChiefsFan
NM_ChiefsFan

I disagree that being a good GM is all about the draft. Making the decision to move on from players, building through trades, and the ability to find talent in places that other teams aren’t looking all play a part in being ‘good’. I think Veach is (albeit with a small sample size) fairly strong in those areas.

QuackTastic
QuackTastic

I think he was absolutely right not to give Dee Ford his payday. His one great season was his contract year. Every other year he’s been banged up. That contract he got has ‘bust’ written all over it. I’m not saying he won’t be good for a couple more years, but he’ll definitely get the injury bug again soon and I’ll be surprised if he ever learns how to set an edge.

CHIEFSandSABRES

I think he was absolutely right not to give Dee Ford his payday

Which is why I am still personally not on the fire Veach or love Veach train. He still deserves a little more time in my opinion, but moves like this certainly help him in my view. The CJ95 and Hill contracts will be big in how he is viewed.

BoJest
BoJest

Both will be huge. That is the norm across the league

Tyrone
Tyrone

Nate, I would not want you as my promoter. You probably shouldn’t preface every slightly positive point about Veach with “has h done well at X? No way!”

Show some conviction in your arguments. Even if you think he hasn’t been great at something, put the ‘blinders on’.

zulu trader
zulu trader

Angry Daffy Duck GIF by Looney Tunes - Find & Share on GIPHY

QuackTastic
QuackTastic

Right? Haha. He should be talking about Veach like he’s his mother.

Spider
Spider

“Is Veach terrible? Yeah, of course if you look at the entirety of his performance, but I’m giving him credit for scouting a great player his predecessor traded up for but don’t give credit because the clock on his VCR still flashes 12:00. So he’s really got that going for him and that makes him magnificent.”
-Nate