AG Round Table: Is It Time To Worry About Jones?

 43 replies

The Arrowhead Guys gather at the round table to discuss the Chris Jones contract extension.

The Arrowhead Guys gather at the round table for another fight discussion, this time about when to get nervous about the Chris Jones contract situation…

01lowbird (jonesy_83@hotmail.com)

Adam: I’m officially on the Chiefs will trade Chris Jones ‘Hill’.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: That’s not a good hill to be on my friend.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: The longer this goes on the more likely it becomes.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: I agree that’s why I said what did in reply to you on twitter. I’m not on that hill yet.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: The thing that bothers me is he had been posting videos of workouts and goofing around. That’s stopped.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: Well it’s starting to get closer to training camp which he needs to be at in my opinion. If he doesn’t show up there then I’ll be on Adam’s hill with him.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: By the way, if we lose Jones AND Hill over money I’m gonna have to fill my smoker to the brim for all the crow I’ll be serving up.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: I don’t think we would lose Jones over money. I don’t think this is about money in the slightest for the Chiefs. They will give him what he wants, but they just want to see him in the system.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: Nah.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: I’ve seen it from multiple places now. And I believe that’s literally all that’s hanging this up. But we’ll see how it unfolds

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: They seen him play what, 60% of his snaps in a four man front? Its never not about the money.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: For Jones yeah, but I would be willing to bet a large amount of money that if he already was at voluntary workouts and at mandatory mini camp that he’d have his contract.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: Nah.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: Lol, Just my opinion.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: That’s not how it works.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: I’m glad you know every contract negotiation. Makes this easier.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: If they needed the Eric Berry June 1st money maybe you could say that. But they didn’t.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: That makes less sense. He didn’t show up to any team activities to learn the defense. Like I said it’s just my opinion.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: That’s 100% normal though for players in contract negotiations.

01lowbird (jonesy_83@hotmail.com)

Adam: I think it’s more about the D-Line coach (Belichick’s philosophies) plus Spags use of his fronts. Makes Jones expendable to them.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: That and Saunders give the Chiefs all the leverage in that case as well.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: No he doesn’t.

01lowbird (jonesy_83@hotmail.com)

Adam: Yes. That’s why they nabbed him.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: Sorry if that’s their leverage against Chris Jones they’re dumber than I thought.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: That’s exactly what it is. I’m not saying it’s smart, but when it comes to contract negotiations all teams try to put themselves in that position. Like I said yesterday, no way they can replace Jones. But they will tell him that they can. I want them to pay him as soon as possible. They should do it to get him in training camp. But I see an avenue that they try to trade him. It’s the narrowest road I’ve ever seen but I see it.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: I don’t see it with a late 3rd round pick from a small school. We want to think that because of the Dorsey method, but those were high picks ie. Ford/Hali, Peters/Smith or Jones/Poe.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: No. It’s because of his ceiling and he’s an ideal 3 tech fit. Regardless of where he comes from. Talent is talent.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: Saunders is an all over head scratcher for me, he doesn’t fit Spag’s scheme to begin with, let alone come close to being a Jones replacement.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: I didn’t say he would be able to replace Jones, but if the coaching staff believes they can coach him up to be competent which they clearly do then that’s what they believe they will do.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: But if you think the Chiefs got him as leverage, he would ‘have’ to be a Jones replacement, and he’s not, so I don’t know how that can be viewed as leverage. I don’t see his ceiling as a 3 tech, I disagree with you there. I see his ceiling as a 3 down 1 tech.

Dan Harms (f16mech.dh@gmail.com)

Dan: We’ll see how he develops but he’s a 3 tech and unless he gets much stronger and grows longer arms he can’t play 1 tech the way Nnadi can. Nnadi is going to be the 1 tech for a while IMO. Not that it matters all that much. They will play more Nickel. No matter what. Pay. Jones.

Anthony S (ta2tony21@gmail.com)

Anthony: Generally 3 techs have more length than 1 techs.  I’m old enough to remember when there were concerns about Poe being able to anchor because he had too much length, but yes, Jones should get paid.  He should have already been paid.  Hence the concern.

When will you begin to worry about the Chiefs’ long term plans for Chris Jones?

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stjoechief

This is pure speculation without knowing what the back and forth has been, but I suspect Jones’ demands went up after the Frank Clark signing while the team is arguing that Clark is a DE while Jones is a DT and therefore market value is less. Unless you count Aaron Donald, who is the only DLineman of any type I would take over Jones. I’m confident the deal will get done because the Chiefs aren’t about to pull a Gruden and blow up their entire roster.

StramtoReid
StramtoReid

I here everybody hate on Dorsey because he didn’t sign players early and had to franchise players,and than sign them to a big contract.

What do you do when the player doesn’t want to give a discount? You either sign them to a big contract or trade them.

Since we don’t know what CJ is asking, we don’t have enough info to play General Manager . All I know is, I might owe Dorsey an apology for not signing players early. What can you do when they player won’t negotiate? I don’t know if it was the players fault or Dorsey fault that a new contract didn’t get done early, I was wrong to judge Dorsey.

Players like Hill and C.J. have less leverage than Berry, Houston or Bowe, the Chiefs has more depth now, and they need to save money for P M.15.
C.J. and Hill might force the Chiefs to trade them.

sydenham
sydenham

So what can the Chiefs expect in return for trading CJ? It sounds and feels like an unthinkable, but for argument’s sake: an upper tier CB? A first round pick?

BleedingRedAndGold

Certainly, it’s about money for Jones, but only in part, unless I miss my guess. Berserker referenced rumors that on the money side the money in question is ~$25MM in guaranteed money, but if that’s the case, that’s a matter of money+, and not just straight-up contract value, etc. Guaranteed money’s a special case WRT contract money. Thing about that is just where the separation lies. If KC’s offer is 50MM on a 100MM contract and Jones wants 75MM, that’s one thing, but if KC’s offer is 75MM and Jones wants 100MM guaranteed, that’s something else again. Just example numbers pulled out of my ass the air, but they’ll do for illustration.

But wait, there’s more, as they say on TV.

BleedingRedAndGold

Something that nobody’s mentioned is that there’s a certain amount of reputation going on here. Veach won’t want to just roll over for Jones’ agent, because if he does, not only will the agent be able to use that against him to jack up the price on other players in the future, agents also undoubtedly talk to one another. Being a soft touch can get expensive, fast. As I recall, that was part of the problem with Dorsey, his tendency to give players a lot of what they wanted without getting concessions in return. Having been fired gives Dorsey an excuse to play more hardball, but Veach is still new to his job, so he doesn’t have that going for him.

And being new to the job still, he doesn’t have a long track record to work from. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are other things involved, but let’s not forget in all the fond remembrances of Dorsey that he got the team into cap trouble – so he was no ace negotiator. Sure, there were other things involved in his termination, but if it’s always about money, that will do for the reason WRT this discussion.

BleedingRedAndGold

So let’s not forget that while Veach may have made a mistake or three on his own WRT money, he inherited Dorsey’s cap problems and has had to work to keep the team winning while getting clear of those. Let’s also not forget that He’s only had two drafts to date, and between the two only one first round draft pick. Not three drafts with two first rounders, but two with one. That the Rd 1 of his that Dorsey spent was an outstanding investment is irrelevant to Veach’s draft & FA problems to date, it’s still a handicap he had to deal with, which affected his FO decision-making. I would say that it won’t be until next year that he’ll largely be free of the consequences he inherited from Dorsey.

And strictly speaking, this isn’t a criticism of Dorsey as a defense of Veach. These are objectively true things, not an opinion along the lines of, f’rex, ‘Veach habitually trades his first-round picks away’ or ‘Veach just locks in on “his guy” and ignores everyone and everything to go get him’. Dorsey left Veach a mess, and IMO next year will be Veach’s first year where he’s cleared up enough of them and gotten free enough of the moves he had to make to do it to consider the year to be fully his own. Y’all may not agree with that, but if you forget these points, you aren’t addressing enough of the available facts.

But the main fact is “Just pay Jones whatever he wants, immediately” is a simplistic take at best.

Chieftess-Blinders-On
Chieftess-Blinders-On

The Chris Jones stuff will get figured out guys. He seems to love life and being a Chief. 😘

Silly question. How do post pictures and stuff like that?

Berserker

Copy a url that has .jpg, .png, or .gif at the end of it, then just paste it in the comment box.

Chieftess-Blinders-On
Chieftess-Blinders-On
Berserker

So, on that google page, I would right-click on the image itself, click “view image,” and then copy that new url which is “https:…. .jpg” into the comments box.

Or, right-click on the image and then click “copy image location,” then paste into the comments box.

Chief-Blinders-On

I’ll show you how to do it.

upamtn

the guy REALLY needs to be in camp like yesterday … new contract or no, he needs to get hisself to the workouts and learning the new Spags system

I mean, he IS a “team player” right? *cough*choke*

Berserker

What kind of team would demand that a teammate risk $50 million, for practice?

Berserker

Long term plans for Jones? I won’t begin to worry about that until he holds out of a regular season game.

Jones is a great fit on every Dline. They’re not worried about his fit, they’re arguing about being $25 million apart on guaranteed money (according to rumors, the kind of which usually originate from the player’s agent), and playing idiotic one-upsmanship games in the meantime.

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

It’s seems players are constantly holding out to get money and more often than not they get it. It doesn’t really seem to matter how much money those teams have generally if it’s a great player they end up with a contract. Occasionally you get the Khalil Mack trade. More often you get the Aaron Donald and Justin Houston and Eric Berry deals. I haven’t seen anything from the Chiefs at this point that makes me think they won’t pay good players. It is concerning that we used up such a big chunk of the cap on Frank Clark who in my opinion is not as good as Chris Jones. But with what we have left from this year I think we can make a pretty good offer and still have money for Mahomes though it does look like Hill might be out.

Team Player
Team Player

You guys have a business to run. Drama sells. Do what you have to do but I won’t join the hate parade.

QuackTastic
QuackTastic

I think it’s more paranoia than anything. It’s not unjustified if you’re giving some of these ‘reports’ the benefit of the doubt.

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Those reports are probably if you look at it in that light the same thing though drama sells

QuackTastic
QuackTastic

I’d be shocked, SHOCKED, if we didnt lock up Chris Jones. Its gonna happen, just a matter of time.

Same thing happened with Berry if I recall. When you’re talking 100 million dollar contracts, these things take awhile to hash out. I think the reports about the chiefs wanting him to report to training camp are overblown. Surely they understand it’s a business decision and he’s looking out for his interests. The main squabble is probably all over guaranteed $$ as that seems to be the hot topic lately with the players.

Also, how does Saunders, a disruptive NT, NOT fit Spags scheme?

Tony Sommer

comment image

Chief-Blinders-On

There’s a classic.

Chief-Blinders-On

I think I already said all I can possibly say about Chris Jones, but I agree with Anthony. It’s never not about the money in the NFL.

Ever.

Team Player
Team Player

Except when it’s about injury

Chief-Blinders-On

Even then…

There’s an injury settlement.

Justin Houston and Eric Berry didn’t give money back because they were hurt.

Nor have the Chiefs ever paid players like Jamaal, Tyreek, Dante, Jared, Brandon Carr or others more money when they were playing well above their tiny contracts or dominating on discount deals until it was time for a new contract.

Money is behind all of it. None of them do the morally right thing very often. Players will rework deals and teams will give huge contracts but only after lots of negotiating and posturing.

Maybe saying ever in such absolute fashion was a bit much… But it’s almost always about money.

💰 💰 💰

upamtn

troof^^^

Mink Farmer
Mink Farmer

The Chiefs know Jones. Seeing him in shorts at mini camp wasn’t going to give them any meaningful new information about his fit in the new system. Training camp would give them more, but they already have a lot. This whole, “we won’t give him a deal until he’s here and we see how he fits” thing smacks of pure negotiation posturing. Nothing substantive behind it.

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed

Not worried at all. Until Jones has a new contract he should stay away from all offseason team activities. How many season ending injuries have occurred already in the NFL? His fines are minimal compared to the payday he will receive. I think if he holds out of everything until opening day he will be fined less than half a million, vs his probably 50 million in guarantees.

It will get done in training camp.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

The nah responses are just cold.

Dave B.
Dave B.

One might say they’re Stone Cold…