FanPost: Hill, Hunt, Clark and Growing Up as a Fan

 81 replies

A FanPost by BDChiefsFan

I wanted to write this in February, right after Dorsey signed Hunt. But I didn’t. I felt lazy. I felt sick to my stomach, all over again. When the Hunt video came out, it took me a bit to move on as a fan. I felt he only toe-touched the young woman. I was all over twitter stating the alleged racist word the young woman may have said. I was thinking, “if they suspend Hunt for 4-5 games, or even rest of the regular season, I would be ok with it. Just let him play in the postseason.” I even got blocked by a national NFL writer for arguing on his twitter about Hunt’s toe touching.

Well, the Kansas City Chiefs released Hunt, and the ownership claimed it was because Hunt had “lied” to them about the incident. Right then, I was done with Hunt. I realized, that as a poster boy for a billion-dollar business, he cannot hit women. He just cannot hit people under ANY circumstances. After that, only thing I wished for Hunt was that he gets counseling and help on his anger issues. Should he get a second chance? sure. But let him stay away from football for a bit, get his head straight, and then he can come back. As for the football player Hunt, I was done with him.

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So when the Browns signed Hunt, I felt sick all over again. I felt Chiefs got the short end of the stick. But this is the world we live in now. If a player has done something bad (a video of which exists), his NFL team will kick him out so they don’t have to answer tough questions, then another NFL team can pick him up after a certain amount of time has passed (after Media gets other, bigger fish to fry). They can make some generic comments and pay not much of a penalty. The Reuben Foster case proved that. Hunt is proving that. The media has moved on. So have the fans.

So where are we today? The Chiefs just traded for and signed Frank Clark to an extension. Given the team’s history, and Clark’s history, should they have signed Clark?  Probably not, but as long as Clark stays relatively clean (doesn’t put anything bad on video), he will be fine. The Chiefs will be fine.

Which brings us to the Tyreek Hill news. Johnson County DA is not going to criminally charge Hill, because the evidence is inconclusive. They believe Hill’s kid has been physically harmed and Child Protection is looking into it. But no criminal charges for the star receiver. Hill is scott free from a law enforcement standpoint. Excuse me, I have to go bang my head onto a nearby wall.

/3 minutes later

The NFL will suspend Hill, for a slate of 4-6 games. The Chiefs will plan to play without him for that portion. The Chiefs will then sign Hill to an extension, AFTER the season. They will probably use this recent news to have some out’s in Hill’s contract. They will try to give Hill a little less money using this. Great for the team.

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I will cheer the Chiefs on when they win the Superbowl at the end of the season. But morally, I will become a little vacuous. As long as we win the Superbowl baby! Right?

The NFL will keep going on, keep hiring these young men will troubled pasts, presents and futures. As long as they can tout the “mental help” these men are getting. They will take meager steps to keep public face. But domestic violence and violence against strangers will keep happening. Now I know my team isn’t any different than any other team regarding this issue. There is no moral high ground. There’s only dollar making for the Shield. And lure of the Superbowl.

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zulu trader
zulu trader

severn58

I will say, though, kudos on offering an open forum to discuss what’s a pretty polarizing and controversial topic and not hiding from it.

I’m a staunch supporter of giving people the ability to debate and converse about subjects that others may just decide to censor or ignore altogether.

upamtn

if I could give this post a billion wrecks I would …. at least
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Chiefs North
Chiefs North

Part of me would love the team that I root for to be a fine, upstanding example in the league, with a great moral compass. But an equally big part of me wants the team I root for to win – that’s why I spend my hard earned dollars buying jerseys, traveling from out of the country to go to games and spend way more time than I should following their exploits online. The problem is that as the league currently stands, it’s VERY difficult to be both things at the same time. The reality is the NFL as an entity doesn’t give a damn about domestic violence (or violence in general) – they only care about the optics of domestic violence as it may affect their advertising. If the NFL really gave a damn about this issue, they’d put massive penalties in place for athletes convicted (lifetime ban or minimum 2-3 year bans, etc.). The Chiefs tried to take the “high road” with Kareem Hunt and it ended up being a win for the Browns (or any of a dozen other teams who would’ve snatched him up in a heartbeat). I understand that Hunt was released as much for the lying as for the incident, but my point is that neither the incident, the lying or the small suspension was enough to dissuade multiple teams from trying to immediately sign Hunt. Not only did Cleveland get very little blow back for doing it, they’re now being hailed as a Super Bowl contender and getting more prime time games from the league. Personally – I can be a fan of the Chiefs without being a fan of every single player on the roster. Every year there’s some guys I haven’t liked – sometimes due to lack of talent (IMHO), guys being overpaid, guys making dumb decisions (like lining up offside), etc. In some cases it’s a player you’ve met in person, or have heard from sources you trust is a prima donna with a huge ego, or just your garden variety asshole. Maybe it’s a player with different political beliefs… Read more »

zulu trader
zulu trader

thanks for permission

BDChiefsFan

very nicely written. agree with so much you said.

NovaChiefs
NovaChiefs

We all assume that Hunt is “better now”, that his troubles are behind him. Given the number of known incidents & a few rumored ones even earlier, plus his general family situation, I’m not sure that is a wise assumption at this point. For his sake, we all hope it is, but this could blow up in CLE’s face & we get to say “Tried to warn ya”. It’s a long season.

stjoechief

Well said and I largely agree. The other thing to remember is that these are men who are mostly still in the “young and stupid” phase of development. I did plenty of dumb things in my early twenties, and I grew up in a solid, family oriented middle class environment. A lot of NFL players haven’t had that luxury. Add in more money than most of their families have ever seen and “friends” who are more than happy to help them spend it and it’s amazing there aren’t more incidents than there are.

Mink Farmer
Mink Farmer

Tyreek Hill released a statement, via his attorneys:

“I love and support my family above anything. My son’s health and happiness is my number one priority. I want to thank the Kansas City Chiefs, my attorneys, my agent and my union for supporting me through this. My focus remains on working hard to be the best person for my family and our community I can be, and the best player to help our team win.”

From his attorney:

“Tyreek has maintained from the inception and throughout the investigation that he was innocent of any crime. Contrary to some media reports, Tyreek cooperated with law enforcement and DCF. He continues to cooperate with authorities. Unfortunately, due to laws related to confidentiality, as much as he would like to, he cannot comment regarding specific allegations.”

zulu trader
zulu trader

does that mean that his ghetto wife/fiance/baby’s momma is the culprit? Somebody ought to have their arm broken for this. I am so happy now that the Hill family is my neighbor. There aren’t a finer bunch around

Chiefsfan115
Chiefsfan115

Somebody ought to have their arm broken for what? You don’t know what happened. The district attorney even admitted he doesn’t know what happened. You’re the kind of person who would burn a witch at the stake because your child got sick. It’s absurd how quick you want to jump to conclusions and think you understand what’s going on.

zulu trader
zulu trader

Didn’t the DA say a crime had been committed. Shit, I must have misunderstood. Come to think of it, I am totally off base with this. I thought a child’s arm was broke and an investigation is on-going. Involved are the parents who have a record and history of domestic violence. … I wonder if I get any money for all these down votes I’ve been getting

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

I’m upping this, because I wanna see what Ant Knee pays out for the good stuff

Leaf
Leaf

Right, because what a DA says is always 100% accurate. It’s why we don’t have any innocent people in jail.

Also even if a crime had been committed, it might not be about the broken arm. That’s just speculation based on earlier rumors.

zulu trader
zulu trader

I’ve been to jail — your right we don’t have any innocent people in jail

BleedingRedAndGold

I’ve spent a little time in jail as well, and you know what I remember most? Acts of kindness and decency amongst the people in that over-crowded cell. No fights, no trouble, just folks who in one way or another got sideways of the law. None of us were angels, sure, but neither were we a collection of thugs and demons.

As for innocent people getting convicted, there’s a former principal in TX who might still be inside for a crime he didn’t commit, the group of young men in Chicago who were convicted for the crimes of another man, the kid who spent years in Rikers without ever even getting a trial, and many more. Prosecutors can violate Brady vs. Maryland with impunity, and so they do just that, and more often than the public realizes. Exculpatory evidence has a way of evaporating.

zulu trader
zulu trader

I wish I did time in that sanctuary of a jail where you were.

severn58
severn58

How much ya jail bench?

zulu trader
zulu trader

which time holmes?

BDChiefsFan

i heard on a few podcasts that DAs have a LOT of leeway on what to prosecute and what NOT to prosecute. sometimes, they won’t even prosecute if they feel it isnt a slam dunk win.

sometimes, DAs try to do the right thing.

Sometimes, DAs are showboating and making a name for themselves.

too many variables to read into the Jackson County DAs speech.

BleedingRedAndGold

Just so. The DA said he believes a crime was committed, but /which/ crime? We don’t know and he didn’t say. Maybe he feels that there was a level of neglect that went into the crime zone, but he didn’t say, so there’s no way of knowing.

zulu trader
zulu trader

I’ve been around, and someone with a record of DV does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. There is a reason for that — because it is the reality of this situation.

BleedingRedAndGold

I’ve been around myself, and I’ve encountered people with a history of DV that got things turned around, and others who have not, not to mention abuse that isn’t violent and neglect that might qualify as criminal.

And I agree, some people have a steady stream of incidents and don’t deserve much benefit of doubt. OTOH, Hill was younger when the one incident that went to court occurred, and appears to have stayed clean since, depending on the outcome of the gov’t investigation.

But “never forgive, never forget” runs straight against my principles, as does jumping to conclusions. Punishment is at times necessary, but short of things like murder and other felonies that merit life in prison, it also has to have an end point. Punishing someone forever isn’t actually punishment, it’s closer to torment/torture because it accomplishes nothing positive.

zulu trader
zulu trader

Hey BRandG, do you hug trees often, or is it that your favorite football player is involved?

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

You are being a jackass, your way is right and everyone that is trying to be objective is wrong. What a crock of shit, this is America and people are innocent until proven guilty.

zulu trader
zulu trader

my ass … what TV shows you been watching?

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Ok jack

zulu trader
zulu trader

I am really disappointed MidKan Chiefs Lifer. I refrained from calling anybody here a name. Even though I wanted to many times- like now

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

I didn’t

zulu trader
zulu trader

whatever you say, jack ass

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Hey that’s the way it’s supposed to be played, if you don’t throw a name or two at someone they dont know they are even in an argument!

Chickennpickles
Chickennpickles

He said you were BEING a jackass, not that you ARE one. I actually thought you had the problem with being called Jack, lol..

upamtn

you have to admit that SOMEONE did SOMETHING that was wrong … resulting in said broken arm

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

How is it not possible that a kid fell down and broke his arm did someone do something wrong you can’t wrap them in padding. I admit the thought is there that something could have happened it’s not a comfortable thought, but I don’t have to admit that I know what happened because I don’t and I don’t know that anyone made it happen.

upamtn

oh, something DID happen … that’s not even a question

did the kid fall all by himself? possible, but why would the DA flat out state “I’ sure a crime has been committed, I just don’t have the smoking gun evidence to convict” if the kid did, indeed, fall all by himself?

well guess what: he wouldn’t … he’s telling you that something terribly wrong happened … and there’s no reason to NOT believe him

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Hey you believe what you believe, anoint a person just because he’s a DA. the reason he would say something like that is because hey if nothing happens fine he’s off the hook. Later if something comes back and shows that Hill did do something or his wife did do something then he can say look I told you guys I couldn’t do anything because we didn’t have enough proof so please still elect me.

Leaf
Leaf

Ehhh, I’ve seen shady DAs out for their own self invest before. I’m not saying he’s lying, but I’m not just going to believe everything he says when he can’t back it up.

BigRed

Oh, you have information that it wasn’t an accident? Do tell….or you still going off of the “belief” of the DA?

upamtn

sorry, Red, but the DA and his staff have actually done an investigation … WE haven’t … the DA knows a whole lot more about the whole thing than you or I or any of us will likely ever know

so yeah, my bottom line this: the DA isn’t going to come out and say that “there’s sufficient evidence to suggest that a crime was committed” without having a really REALLY good reason to do so … it would have been SO much easier for the guy to say “look, we couldn’t find anything” but that’s NOT WHAT HE SAID … get it? got it? good, thank you and DO have a most wonderful day! (seriously, I can’t believe so many people want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like NOTHING HAPPENED)

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Seriously I cant believe we are all the way back to killing witches. I thought we had come farther than that. Have actual proof then punish that is my belief. And for something like hurting a kid hell I would love to see severe punishment.

Honestly though CPS in Kansas is so screwed right now I don’t believe anything they do or that system does in this state do a little investigating on it and you’ll see that it seems to be corrupt.

Spider
Spider

Hashtag Title IV.

Leaf
Leaf

There was a reason. He’s covering he’s ass so people won’t blame him for not don’t his job. Just look at the Star blaming the chiefs for not cutting hill already.

Nasrani
Nasrani

It’s also possible that alcohol could have been involved in his first DV conviction – I don’t believe that I ever heard one way or the other (although it was probably published). Young drunks do idiotic things (as do other drunks and most young people in general).

I also wonder how much that first conviction comes into play in this “investigation.” If Tyreek had had a clean slate prior to this charge, would they be as hell-bent to find something/convict him of something?

Texas Chief
Texas Chief

Once guilty, always guilty.
Is that what you’re saying?

I don’t know what happened. And I’m not willing to toss someone in jail for something until they have been tried and convicted, at the very least.

Spider
Spider

Lest we forget, there are people out there that still **believes** the Earth is flat.

1wombat
1wombat

The DA is an elected official. He will say anything to save face.

zulu trader
zulu trader

I haven’t got a fuckin’ thing done today, I was too busy arguing with all you homer, tree huggin’ types. I think I’ll go ahead and put on my skirt and bury my head in the sand, so that I can feel like part of the gang

fansince63
fansince63

Don’t get any more sand in your vagina.

Spider
Spider

Tree-hugger? How dare you!?! That is out-of-bounds.

Spider
Spider

It could be neglect from letting a small child walk down a flight of stairs unsupervised…like the fiancé admitted to in the recording. That could result in a fall and broken arm…like the fiancé (apparently unintentionally) hypothesized in the recording as she attempted to frame Hill.

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Damn every time a kids arm gets broken it’s a crime. He didnt say the broken arm was the crimecommitted, at least I dont think he did. Could be the DA is an ass that is being just that for who knows why. Without any evidence we dont know anything much less who did whatever anything might be. I would live to hit someone in the face with a shovel if they purposely injured a child, in any way remotely close to breaking an arm. But it is really dangerous to actually blame someone for something without evidence.

zulu trader
zulu trader

some evidence- no evidence-a lot of evidence. Enough evidence a crime was committed, not enough evidence to convict in court

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

YOU AND I DONT KNOW JACK SHIT. We don’t know if there’s any evidence. We know a DA said that he believes a crime was committed. You’re talking like you were part of the investigation and you actually know something about this. We have been told exactly zero facts none we have an opinion from a DA who I do not necessarily trust due to politics. Again we don’t even know what the supposed crime was you’re guessing. But hey guessing is good enough to hang someone in my book. Oh well you fo you I’ll do me.

zulu trader
zulu trader

I hope the Hill family moves in next door to you and you can have picnics together

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Well since I think you are a bad guy, I think you should be fired and put in jail. Facts dont matter only what I think.

Also I’m ok if they do move in, having Tyreek as a neighbor would be pretty sweet. If it turns out he has been beating his kid or broke his arm then you’re right I would not like to have him as a neighbor quite as much. But if I see something happen I would indeed turn them, or anyone I see doing something wrong to a kid or adult, in to the police. They might not like the cows walking through their yard if they move in next to me to be honest.

upamtn

MidKan … the truth is that YOU don’t know jack shit about it either … you’re heatedly defending … well, I have no idea, Hill? his wife? the idea that just because something can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (ie, in a court of law) that nothing whatsoever even happened???

child, please … you’re just as “off base” from YOUR side as Zulu is on the other (according to you, at least)

the “truth” is more than likely in some gray in-between area … bottom line, of course, is that SOMETHING bad DID happen … yet you’re up in arms in defense of it? really?

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Didnt read it well I clearly said you or I. I’m actually heatedly defending an idea. The idea is that we tend to persecute far too quickly because of the internet. We get partial information which is really no information and then we want to hang a guy I just think it’s shit.

Also the something bad that did happen supposedly, could just be the kid broke his arm which is bad but not someone breaking it bad.

upamtn

Mid, you are right and the “you or I” point … that said, my “counterpoint” (above) still stands … ie, something happened and it wasn’t pretty (and an innocent fall down the stairs seems like the least likely explanation at this point)

BigRed

I broke my arm as a kid and it wasn’t because of anything bad. So now….every broken arm as a kid is caused by something bad and a crime has been committed. Huh….interesting.

MidKan Chiefs Lifer
MidKan Chiefs Lifer

Also I have a friend that I grew up with that is now a successful businessman in Topeka, with a pediatric nurse as a wife, who actually was in a very similar situation. The main difference is he had never been convicted or accused of any sort of domestic violence before. His son knocked the babygate down from in front of the stairs with his walker and fell down the stairs. He actually ended up having a broken leg. Even though the kid had never had any signs of abuse before and had always been at every single doctors check up for some reason they decided that it could be child abuse when they took the boy in to the hospital. This friend had to get a lawyer and fight very hard to keep from going to jail and getting his kid taken from him. Now just imagine how much harder it would be if he had a domestic violence case against him it doesn’t make him any more guilty than he was because he was not but it sure does make it look bad and it sounds a whole lot like what could be going on in the hill case. That is why I do not want to jump to conclusions not because I think he’ll is some innocent fairy has never done anything wrong but because we do not know what happened and we do not know what motivation the da may have.

zulu trader
zulu trader

truth, and I got proof

Spider
Spider

In the tape, the fiancé admits to sending the young child down a flight of stairs by himself. I’m not saying the kid definitely fell down a flight of stairs, but little kids do fall down stairs. I suppose that’s why we have a standard of innocence until proven guilty.

Mahomesisgreat
Mahomesisgreat

You are right, doesn’t matter who downvotes your comment. Many people can’t face the truth.

Team Player
Team Player

Celebrity (news) sells. We build up heroes to destroy them. Once upon a time if you said “OJ” you were talking about orange juice

The NFL isn’t a Boy Scout troop, it’s an entertainment business.

But the business is based on advertising revenue. We the consumers have the last word. But like politics, we are easily distracted from truly educating ourselves making a stand. So ultimately it’s our fault.

Nasrani
Nasrani

Innocent until proven guilty. Allegedly, four months ago when this originally came to light, there was no belief that anything dodgy had happened (read in the comments), which is telling. It’s also an odd move that they’re choosing to bring it to light now, right before the draft. What they’re hoping to achieve by breaking this news now is uncertain, but why didn’t they investigate four months ago?

severn58
severn58

I don’t begrudge anyone their right to have whatever opinion they want on stuff like this, but personally it doesn’t weigh on me much when it comes to the Chiefs or sports in general.

The team will make their decision, whatever that may be, and football will still be played, always.

severn58
severn58

I will say, though, kudos on offering an open forum to discuss what’s a pretty polarizing and controversial topic and not hiding from it.

I’m a staunch supporter of giving people the ability to debate and converse about subjects that others may just decide to censor or ignore altogether.

BDChiefsFan

thats what i love about AG. no corporate overlords telling us to sush it. it feels liberating. lets talk about these topics. lets debate. lets share our disgust and/or relief.

severn58
severn58

I’ve long ago detached the person from the player when it came to sports, “never meet your heroes”, as the saying goes.

At the end of the day I’ll cheer for the team that comes out of the tunnel this fall and leave it to the powers that be to sort out the other hulabaloo.

Nasrani
Nasrani

I’ve long ago detached the person from the player when it came to sports

This seems like the healthiest attitude to have, and it’s unfortunately one that not enough people (myself included) maintain.

severn58
severn58

I’m nothing if not the voice of reason.

Chiefsfan115
Chiefsfan115

When I was a kid, I idolized Michael Jordan. I had pictures of Michael Jordan covering my bedroom walls, I wore his clothes, I wore his shoes, I pretended to be him in my driveway. As an adult, I met Michael Jordan and he was an asshole. That pretty much killed my hero worship.

What bothers me about this whole Tyreek Hill incident is not that Tyreek Hill might be released or suspended. The Chiefs are going to be good as long as Patrick Mahomes can lace up his cleats.
What bothers me is so many assume Hill is guilty because there was an investigation or because of Steve Howe’s opinion. An investigation and a DA’s opinion aren’t proof of anything.

Nasrani
Nasrani

Especially when said DA has no facts to back up his opinion, and is just spouting off.

I think his opinion echoes the NFL in trying to save face and strike preemptively before they find themselves staring down (what appears to be) another domestic incident.

The kid’s arm was broken, sure, but correlation =/= causation. The kid could have fallen down the stairs, the kid could have been running through the house and hit a wall… there are a lot of accidental ways a kid can break his arm in the house. My brother fell off a horse when he was 5 or 6, but no one was screaming “DOMESTIC ISSUES!!!!1!!!!1one!!one1!” because most people realize that kids do stupid things, and accidents can happen as a result of said stupid things.

Team Player
Team Player

You had a horse?!?

Nasrani
Nasrani

Yeah I did. I grew up on a farm/ranch in Chiefs Kingdom. We had at one time four horses, but now only two.

I unfortunately don’t live there anymore; school requirements took me out of the area (as did the hope of finding a job with my one marketable skill), but I do try to go back and visit whenever I can.

Chickennpickles
Chickennpickles

It could’ve been something like the kid was goofing around & was falling off a couch, counter etc., & one of the parents (or someone else) grabbed him to try & arrest his fall. Kid’s arms can break pretty easily, from the evidence I’ve seen. Is that awful? Absolutely. But I wouldn’t call it criminal. Of course, it could be something nefarious, but there are a million scenarios to either side that one can come up with. I’d also add that, just because the D.A. ‘thinks’ a crime has occurred, it doesn’t mean that a crime occurred. Prosecutors are pretty notorious for their opinions of what constitutes ‘criminal’ being decidedly low.

Nasrani
Nasrani

This is my thought exactly. Parents could have been in the other room/getting something out of the fridge when it happened, and then they heard a sickening thud

hayoli
hayoli

I can’t stand a prosecutor I’ve met so far. They seem slimier than half the people they prosecute. I had a professor that was a prosecutor and he cared about his win percentage more than guilt or innocence. Had a guy paying child support that lost his well paying job during the height of the great recession. Got a job in fast food and couldn’t even pay his rent. Prosecutor pursued him to the fullest until he locked him up, despite protests by the mother. I hope he burns in hell and don’t trust any of them without solid evidence.

BleedingRedAndGold

And as important a point is that everyone’s supporting a culture that enables debate and discussion, even heated arguments, without letting things devolve into flame wars and trolling. I know there are staff members who have worked at establishing this culture, but it wouldn’t have worked without the broad buy-in by the rest of the community.

So everyone give yourselves a little pat on the back, because we got something good going here, and everyone’s a part of that.

KCDrew59
KCDrew59

…but don’t break your arm patting yourself too hard…. you might be ‘investigated’