Frank Clark to KC

 581 replies

This does not mean it is actually happening but it does sound like once/if KC and Clark agree to a deal, then it will occur. How do you feel about the compensation if this does happen?

Updates:

581
Leave a Reply

Please Login to comment
122 Comment threads
459 Thread replies
2 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
92 Comment authors
NHChiefsfanWiking44ChiefsTigersCardsdablueguyBerserker Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Berserker
Berserker

So, being both a casual draftnik and a casual cap-ologist, I hate giving up high draft picks for an expensive vet.

But I do feel better after watching Clark’s 2018 highlight video: Link

Yeah, highlights should always be taken with several grains of salt. But, a whole big proportion of those plays didn’t just happen by accident. This dude looks like a smart, motivated, super-aggressive, hard player. The plays in that video show a mix of athleticism, tenacity, intelligence, and skill that is…..mind changing.

Also, now I can look forward to two entire days of not reading any more shit about drafting a center in the first round.

I just hope our coaches can get the same performance out of him that Seattle’s coaches did, now that he’s been paid.

Saburo
Saburo

This type of trades gives me an uneasy feeling. Why would a smart org, and Seattle has shown they are, trade away a young pass rusher? I would always stay away from trades like this unless you are not investing much

Wiking44
Wiking44

Saburo – You know they just signed Wilson to a monster deal, right? They can’t afford to keep everyone. Same thing will happen to KC when Mahomes signs next year. That’s why they’re trying to win it all this year.

Saburo
Saburo

Not really, they were 9m under the cap with Clark on the tag. If he is as good as people are making him out to be Mack Lawrence etc why a guy like Schneider don’t want to invest in him? because you can only invest in Wagner Wilson and what Seattle fans think they chose over Frank a DT called Reed?
There was a saying around GMs for many years that there is nobody that knows the players better than their own teams. when they are traded they are for a reason and most of the time is not money, money is the easy excuse. Seattle FO is not the raiders.

Berserker
Berserker

I completely agree with that.

But on the other hand, I don’t see many holes in Clark’s career so far. I guess, he did have his best statistical year in his contract year, like Ford…but the difference between his contract year and his prior years don’t seem as extreme as with Ford. So, I’m cautiously optimistic at this point.

Savagerider
Savagerider

Wait a minute so Veach thinks that Clark is this much better than dee Ford that you give up a first-round and a third-round and more money then what you got for ford

Pelletman
Pelletman

We swapped 3rds (we got the better 3rd) and Ford had no position in this defense, so yes, Clark is worth it.

CJ_Spiller
CJ_Spiller

“Ford sucks against the run”

2018 PFF RUN DEFENSE:
Ford: 67
Clark: 69

LMFAO

Mitko

I’ve always said PFF is weird in some ranking. They tend to value quantity of most other things. Seattle often didn’t let him play 1st down (obvious running downs) to keep rotating guys. On film Clark is much better than Ford (Not great, but better)

ChiefsTigersCards
ChiefsTigersCards

I’m honestly not sure why you comment anything Chief’s related. It’s impressive just how negative you are daily. I’m guessing you’re a blast to hang with at parties

Pelletman
Pelletman

Question: Isn’t the point of having cap space and draft capital so you can use it when you need it to make moves?

WIN NOW BOYS

Team Player
Team Player

I’ll settle for February.

If we win in February I don’t care who wins April

KcVinn
KcVinn

I wonder if Clark has a higher “football IQ”? Making him a better leader and over all defender on the field….as opposed to Ford

BoJest
BoJest

I went to SB Nation ‘Hawk site and most all said he was a helluva leader in the locker room as well as on the field. OK…that may not answer the “IQ” part but…..

WaywerdSon
WaywerdSon

surely he aint stupid enough to line up offsides. if that had been the only time Ford lined up bad I could maybe forgive it, but they had toi be pointing that shit out in film even when it didnt get cvalled. He lined up too far forward a lot. Stupid stupid stupid

Pelletman
Pelletman

From a Vikings fan on /r/NFL

I don’t think the deal is as bad as people are suggesting. I think you have to look at it as they upgraded from Dee Ford to Frank Clark, and then see what the total cost was to do so.

So I use the Jimmy Johnson chart, simply because it’s the most commonly used. Ok so I don’t really have a good value on future years picks, I’ve seen down grade by one round, others divide by 2, you could make an argument that it should be roughly equal. I’m going to divide by 2 to come up with my value. For this I’m going to assume all teams all draft in the same spot in 2020, probably generous to the Chiefs, but I also don’t think it would be fair to just use an average, plus the dividing by 2 really reduces the values any way.

Chiefs give 2019 29th pick(640pts), 2019 92nd pick(132pts), 2020 61th pick(292pts/2=146pts) = Total 918pts.

Chiefs get 2019 84th pick(170pts), 2020 36th pick(540/2=270). Total 440pts.

Net cost to go from Dee ford to Frank Clark was 478pts, equal to the 42nd overall pick(mid 2nd round), plus about $3.5 million per year. Clark is a better player, a better fit, and younger.

Let me know if I made mistakes or if you have different draft pick values you think are more accurate.

BoJest
BoJest

The only thing I’ve heard of future picks is…”next years second is worth this year’s third.” Or something to that effect.

WaywerdSon
WaywerdSon

Polian said today on NFL radio that he thought it was the equivilent of moving up from 29th to 24th to get Clark. I’m ok with that

Spider
Spider

Where’d the 2020 36th pick come from?

Pelletman
Pelletman

I’m guess in the Ford trade from San Fran

Brownmanchiefsfan
Brownmanchiefsfan

I mean if I had to pick between paying him or Ford I would choose Clark 10/10 times

Tyrone
Tyrone

comment image

Pelletman
Pelletman

Tyrone
Tyrone

Dude, everyone understands that. It’s the fact that we lost the draft capital AND have to immediately pay him loads of money.

Pelletman
Pelletman

We’re paying to minimize risk…because have an advantage in this window.

BigBill
BigBill

Based on the Clark trade, is the D line complete? What is the next highest position of need?

Pelletman
Pelletman

Clark – Nnadi – Jones – Okafor with depth. D-Line should be good

Hitchens – X -X. LB is still a concern, hopefully DOD can step up. > Draft priority

Fuller – Mathieu – X = Breeland. Still could use Safety/CB help. > Draft priority

We’re really not that far off. I’m more concerned with new scheme lag than personnel.

Team Player
Team Player

Look at the LB in the draft. (Ugh) Because that is the pit of despair in the defense. (Ugh ugh? meh)

And pray someone wants to trade a good LB for draft picks

Safety – I’m ok if Watts/Lucas is the weak link.

MasterBlaster7
MasterBlaster7

Hitchens was good in the 4-3 in Dallas…we will be fine.

Team Player
Team Player

That earned him the “?” Other players get older. And hit a wall. Hitch may have too. He’s never been successful as the dominant LB.

But there’s a chance.

And still… Sam? ?? ???

Sudden
Sudden

And we’re paying him a year early instead of a year later like Dorsey was fond of.

And we’ll be paying Jones a year early and Mahomes a year early too. We can’t pay Mahomes for 2 years anyhow. By then most of Clark’s hit will be sunk

tsv0728
tsv0728

Pat can reup next year

Maslowskis Demon Barber of Skeet Street
Maslowskis Demon Barber of Skeet Street

We gave up a first and Dee Ford for a 25 year old Elite 4-3 DE. Before last season Ford was a bum. The money, sure its a lot but he will be 30 years old in the last year off it (he will never make it to year 5). More of an impact than anything we were getting at 29.

BigBill
BigBill

Seems like a lot of draft capital and money to give up. I hope Clark’s worth it and there were several other teams that were willing to pay more so that we got a good deal. Knowing that SEA didn’t have the money to keep Clark; Veach may have been able to get a better deal.

tripower66
tripower66

Wait. After last year, everyone was saying Veach is horrible at drafting. This year he trades the draft pick for a known quality player, and no one is happy with that.

Tyrone
Tyrone

That’s like punting on second down because your offense sucks.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

There were years where we should’ve been trying it…Bobby Sippio, anyone?

WaywerdSon
WaywerdSon

i think its smart play. We need to win now, right now, this year. Kelce aint getting any younger. We will have to be looking at tackles pretty soon. Theres no guarantee you can do that. We have a team right now that can win right now. I aint seeing anything we can get at pick 29 that comes close to what Clark has proven he can do. It takes a front 7 guy a little time to get his feet under him. NFL OL guys are no joke. We know Clark can win against thise guys. Pick 29? Thats a 2nd round guy at best. Easy deal for me to make. Pay the man and lets get a trophy

Sudden
Sudden

And a known quality player at the position he drafted crap at last year nonetheless. Just to complicate the analysis even further

tsv0728
tsv0728

This is certainly an alternate way of thinking about it. He can scout edge for shit, which is why he is already replacing both of his previous 2nd rd picks with FAs. Still not very flattering to Reach unfortunately.

Leaf
Leaf

He’s only had one 2nd and he’s still on the team. who knows who will be starting come beginning of the season or who will play well.

Berserker
Berserker

Clark and Okafor will be starting, barring injury.

alsi2
alsi2

Andy deserves some flack as well. Frankly, he is an offensive genius who was an idiot for keeping Sutton 2 to 3 years too long. Who knows what our defense would have looked like when Veach took over and might not have had focus so much on rebuilding the defense at this point.

The world is full of what-ifs and we will never get to know how things would have played out otherwise. We have the latest and greatest show on turf, and as long as we hold on to Mahomes and enough parts on offense, the show will always be worth watching. I think we are going to end up having a much better team in 2019 by the end of this week. So where does that put us? I like our chances.

APtransplant25
APtransplant25

So what do we need on defense? ILB’s and corners? Looks like they are bringing a lot of attitude to this defense with Mathieu and Clark along with Jones I think we will be playing with some fire for sure!

Spider
Spider

Glad to have him, but damn. That’s too many picks.

Pelletman
Pelletman

If you think of it like replacing pass rushers from a 3-4 OLB to 4-3 DE we only gave up the 1st and moved up in the 3rd.

Spider
Spider

You can say that again.

Tyrone
Tyrone

If you think about it like he’s a replacement, how do you think people would have reacted if we just signed Ford long term and forfeited our first round pick for no reason instead?

Pelletman
Pelletman

Hopefully pissed off… because paying Dee Ford $17 million as an undersized 245lb DE would be stupid. There’s really no discussion to be had about it.

CHIEFSandSABRES

Okay, so we spend the rest of our draft on Linebackers and Secondary?

Anthony Stratton

Centers, obviously.

Severely Concussed
Severely Concussed

comment image

Snafu
Snafu

comment image

alsi2
alsi2

Colquitt is getting older and older, .and you never know when you might need a backup LS.

Seriously, I can’t imagine them not going after LB, CB, and S. Veach might go with a WR or TE over those 3 positions if there is a pick still on the board that he just can’t pass up. You know…patience and all that.

tsv0728
tsv0728
Pelletman
Pelletman

This guy doesn’t get it because he’s a fucking retard and doesn’t understand why we moved on from Ford and Houston. God damn, does no one understand this??? Really??????

CHIEFSandSABRES

I think we gave up a lot, should have kept the second rounder, but I 100% agree with moving on from Houston and Dee Ford. That entire defensive unit last year earned walking papers, minus Chris Jones. The brass noticed.

Pelletman
Pelletman

This is where I differ. If we were in a 3-4 still, I’d like to keep Ford and Houston, because they’re good outside linebackers. They just don’t have a place now.

Anthony Stratton

/checks

Except both apparently DO have a place in a 4-3.

ChiefsCo.
ChiefsCo.

They may have a place, but how much would it cost to keep both of them as compared to Clark? Not to mention age and health/availability.

Anthony Stratton

Well, we know how much both are making, or were set to make with the Chiefs….

ChiefsCo.
ChiefsCo.

I’m just trying to be positive about it all because there’s not anything we can do about it. All we can do is hope for an improved D and a Super Bowl coming our way

Pelletman
Pelletman

/checks

Houston won’t play like a DE, Ford is too small…. and any alternate positions/playing time wouldn’t be worth anywhere near their contracts.

They’re OLBs /END

Berserker
Berserker

What do you mean by, “Houston won’t play like a DE?” I don’t know much about Indy, but they play a pretty standard 4-3 don’t they?

Ford, it depends on the type of 4-3. Just talking about Spags’ 4-3, you’re probably right that he doesn’t fit. If SF runs a wide-9, then he will probably fit that just fine.

ChiefsCo.
ChiefsCo.

Not to mention their salaries. Pay them all that $ in a system that they don’t fit would be a shitstorm of epic proportions

tsv0728
tsv0728

Your conspiracy theory that Justin wouldn’t have played in the dirt is just that, a totally unsupported theory. Justin has already played the position. He is basically exactly the same size as Frank, and was a decent amount more athletic in his prime (stronger/faster/quicker). He had a very solid year last year, fits the system perfectly, and didn’t require any draft picks or long term commitment. You keep him 1 more year, keep him 2 more. On the hook for nothing. Given that they CHOSE to drop Justin(with substantial dead money), and then sign a younger Justin to a megadeal that also costed significant draft capitol is what makes the hole mess stink. I hope Frank is all-pro for the next 5 years. Then it would have been a good move, despite the fact that it was clearly managed piss-poorly and with no forethought whatsoever. Veach is behaving like a total amateur.
Dee was too small, and didn’t have a great history., I’ve got no issue with that move even given hindsight.

Pelletman
Pelletman

It’s not a conspiracy, it’s reality.

You’re telling me a highly coveted 30 year old 3-4 OLB (who can be paid as one) is going to play a position he hasn’t played in years (which is a much more physical position)…. all while being injury prone?

OK BUD

tsv0728
tsv0728

You’re telling me you are just making up shit about a player who still had two years on his contract to justify your assertions?

OK GUY

Pelletman
Pelletman

Let’s see how Houston plays with the Colts, Pal.

Maw423
Maw423

Is JH50 still on his prime? Did he magically knock off a few years?

ChiefsCo.
ChiefsCo.

I guess not. At first I wasn’t too happy about it. Then I saw some tape on him. I think that Veach and company did a good thing bringing him in. Everyone sit back, relax and enjoy. We still have some draft picks to complain or gush over.

CHIEFSandSABRES

Guplain, comsh.

Mahomesisgreat
Mahomesisgreat

You are right Pelletman, we will be fine. I may in the minority here, but I love Veach so far. I have never seen a GM try harder to find talent!

MasterBlaster7
MasterBlaster7

Yep…I’m still down with Veach. I like this move.

Armychiefj
Armychiefj

And either overpay horribly or fail miserably. At least dorse only did one of those

Pelletman
Pelletman

Fuller and a 3rd for Alex was miserably failed?

MasterChief
MasterChief

I like it! Chances are we wouldn’t have gotten such a good player with any of the picks we gave up. Our picks are at the tail-end of the rounds and could very well be last in each round next year. We traded some maybe’s for a known solid star.

We wanted a better D and we’re getting it. My only real concern is making sure Tyreek stays a Chief.
comment image

TNCHIEFS
TNCHIEFS

And in his last presser Veach said he’s learning to be more patient. Total smoke….

CHIEFSandSABRES

Right!

BigBill
BigBill

Yep

Tyrone
Tyrone

I want to put it on record that I don’t agree with this.

I don’t care how good he is, I hate paying non-QBs like this. And for a first and second round pick as well? Wow that is bad.

There is no way we can have a balanced team in 2 or 3 years, and have Clark, Jones, Hill, and Mahomes all getting 20 million+ per year.

Pelletman
Pelletman

In 3 years the cap will be $211 million and he’ll make up ~9.5% of the salary cap, which is very small for an impactful pass rusher.

Tyrone
Tyrone

$211 million is a made up number.

But even if it was real, Jones would be getting 10%, Hill 9%, and Mahomes 20%. That’s 50% to 4 players. The rest of the roster would be filled with average and garbage players. What if one (or 2) of those 4 gets injured?

Anthony Stratton

I’m waiting for Kelce to hold out for a raise at this point…

Pelletman
Pelletman

This is a legit concern. His contract is way too friendly.

Pelletman
Pelletman

$211 is me low balling it. It usually goes up a little more than 6% a year and I just used 6%.

All teams are heavily weighted towards a handful of players.

Pelletman
Pelletman

For example, from 2018 to 2019, the cap rose 6.2%

Jdklks
Jdklks

Exactly. Pretty easy to see a dramatic fall from the top coming in 2-3 years. Instead, we could have had a first and a second round talent on rookie contracts. People are acting like this can just be pencilled in as our #29 pick. Our #29 pick would not have cash-strapped us for five years and very well could have had the same impact at whatever position he played.

Tarkus

Yeah, that draft pick could have been anything. It could have even been a Frank Clark!

Anthony Stratton

So you’re saying we would have drafted Jeffery Simmons to keep with the trend of domestic violence?

chiefsfan1974
chiefsfan1974

Hey we could still package both our number 2 picks this year and move up

Tyrone
Tyrone

*Frank Clark minus $18 million per year

Pelletman
Pelletman

The cap is fluid based on when/if you hit on players. It’s always a crap shoot so you HAVE to be fluid. You can easily miss on a 1st round pick and waste the benefits of hitting on Mahomes.

tsv0728
tsv0728

If only they had a guy on the roster that could have produced 90% of what Frank might, but didn’t have to give up any draft capitol or commit to him long term, freeing up cap to extend Mahomes/Jones and freeing up another year or two to get a cheap young DE ready for prime time.

Pelletman
Pelletman

We didn’t have a guy on the roster.

Jones/Hill are the only pressing contract concerns. Again, money is rarely an issue.

WaywerdSon
WaywerdSon

Hill may not be a problem at all. And theres a good chance the Chiefs know something we dont on that front. I hope to hell thats not the case, but you never know

CHIEFSandSABRES

Do I like Frank Clark, yes. Do I think Brett Veach is an idiot, yes. Do I think the Chiefs will win the Super Bowl, go out and get Patrick Peterson now and I will say yes.

Team Player
Team Player

@CHIEFSandSMITHERS
I agree

CHIEFSandSABRES

SMITHERS probably plays better than the SABRES!

Team Player
Team Player

Yes!