Morning Huddle – Chiefs release five-time Pro Bowl safety Eric Berry

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Chiefs news for 14 March 2019

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Chiefs Release S Eric Berry | Chiefs.com

“We continually evaluate every aspect of our football team and we came to the decision that it was in our best interest to release Eric,” Chiefs General Manager Brett Veach said. “Knowing what Eric has meant to this organization and this city made this an incredibly difficult decision. We wish him nothing but the best.”

Chiefs release five-time Pro Bowl safety Eric Berry | USA Today

The market for safeties was loaded during the free agency tampering window before a flurry of deals were negotiated. Then, within 15 minutes of the new league year officially starting on Wednesday, a new one became available.

The Kansas City Chiefs announced that they have released safety Eric Berry.

Kansas City Chiefs hosting Ronald Darby on visit, per report | 247 Sports

The Chiefs are in the process of overhauling their defense under new coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who took over following the team’s decision to fire previous coordinator Bob Sutton after the 2018 season. Multiple key players have already parted ways with the team in pass rushers Dee Ford (traded to San Francisco) and Justin Houston (released), cornerback Steven Nelson (signed with Pittsburgh), and safety Eric Berry (released), while additions have been made with the reported signing of safety Tyrann Mathieu and linebacker Damien Wilson. Darby, if signed, would likely step into a starting spot at cornerback for the Chiefs whenever he becomes healthy.

2019 NFL Free Agency: Biggest Questions That Remain After Early Action | Bleacher Report

In addition to his huge cap hit, Houston didn’t have the versatility to transition to a 4-3 base scheme under new Chiefs defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo. Lastly, he’s missed 21 contests over the last four seasons because of injuries—most notably an ACL surgery that cost him several games between the 2015-16 terms. 

Four Chiefs defensive starters are gone. Here’s who the team added and has on roster | The Kansas City Star

It hasn’t been all exit ramp for the Chiefs’ defense. They’ve acquired safety Tyrann Mathieu on a three-year, $42 million deal and are expected to sign Cowboys linebacker Damien Wilson as a free agent.

More movement is likely, but one thing is certain. New defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo will shape a unit without some of the team’s most veteran and honored recent players.

Kansas City Chiefs offer Jordan Lucas a 6th round tender | Arrowhead Addict

By offering Lucas a 6th round tender, it means that the Chiefs safety is free to try to sign with another team but the team has a right to match any offer he receives. If the Chiefs give him up to that team and refuse to match any deal, the signing team must compensate the Chiefs with a sixth-round pick.

Until Chiefs fill void, defensive purge begs question if cure worse than disease | The Kansas City Star

About all that is clear in the moment is that a team that essentially fell a measly, wrenching offside penalty away from that Super Bowl berth has diminished its defense by purging two of its most dynamic players, linebackers Justin Houston and Dee Ford, and a spiritual leader even when hurt in Berry. Also gone, albeit less impactfully, is starting defensive back Steven Nelson.

All for a combined return of … a second-round draft pick in 2020 for Ford, who, yes, was the perpetrator of that offsides gaffe in a game lost to New England for many other reasons, but none that better encapsulated how narrow the difference was in what became a 37-31 overtime loss

Jason Verrett expected to visit Chiefs, per report | 247 Sports

It seems unlikely the Chiefs or any other team would commit a large amount of money to sign Verrett given his injury history, but as Rapoport notes, teams are well aware of the ability he brings when healthy.

“I think there’s a perception you want length and size to play the position, but it can look different,” Chargers defensive coordinator Gus Bradley said of Verrett in June of 2018. “His skillset, what he has, his  speed, his athleticism, his change of direction, it is elite.”

In releasing Eric Berry as the latest part of overhaul, the Chiefs end an era | The Athletic

The team was optimistic a few weeks ago when Berry traveled to Green Bay to get a second opinion from Dr. Bob Anderson on his right heel, the part of his body that forced him to miss 15 games last season. Anderson told Berry, a five-time Pro Bowler, that his heel could mend itself without a procedure. Berry wanted to return to the team to prove himself yet again, but the Chiefs ultimately decided that his inability to stay on the field — in playing just four games in the last two seasons — and his large contract were too much of a gamble.

The Chiefs will designate Berry’s release to be executed after June 1. The move saves the team $9.55 million in salary cap space.

Morning Bowl of (T)Weeties:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1106035472495714304

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Team Player
Team Player

@tony

You know I respect you a ton. I often disagree with your conclusions but I’m always listening to learn even during a disagreement. Having said that, right now you’re in a crisis point. The recent roster changes are related to it but not all of it. Probably not even most of it.

Unless you find the discussions here therapeutic, I’d suggest you take a little more time away. AG needs you, but you’re burning out. If you keep going AG won’t have you at all. First thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is to drop the shovel.

Reset your inner balance. Recharge the batteries. Come back as ta2Tony instead of Old Man Withers

Anthony Stratton

If I can’t take a break from the 8+ hours a day I spend updating this site without being able to share my own opinion, I don’t think that anyone will have to worry about it.

If I, or anyone else, can’t have their own opinion and be able to comment about it freely, whats the point of AG? I’m not going to publish articles blasting Veach, but seriously, are you telling me I can’t or shouldn’t comment with my opinions?

Team Player
Team Player

I must have said it wrong.
Bring the opinions. Drop the 8+ hours a day.

I don’t know what I can do to help share the load but I will do what I can to help.* I bet others will too.

*bad timing alert: I will be in cell hell next week while on family
Vacation.

Anthony Stratton

Here’s the thing. This is me. Its always been me. I hope everyone knows that by now.

Maybe I need a 2nd account, so I can be “fake professional me” who runs the site, and “real me” who can share his whacked out conspiracy theories in the comments as a member without people associating it to the site.

It puts me in a predicament either way, for sure.

Team Player
Team Player

I get that. And I like ‘you’. But I see burnout and despair that goes way beyond a distaste for a GM and his decisions. And it’s the ‘you’ I want to keep. This isn’t about AG. It’s not about the Chiefs. It’s not even about ta2Tony. It’s about Anthony, who I perceive as needing a break.

Team Player
Team Player

Having said that, I’ll drift back into being SunDevil. You have a family. I shouldn’t have stepped into their territory

Anthony Stratton

Nah, its appreciated. I’ve actually been taking quite a bit of care to spend more time with friends and family.

This is not an AG-burnout issue. Its a “Ive been saying the same thing about Veach for over a year now and no one will listen” thing. No matter what he’s done, everyone blindly defends him. “Because Mahomes”. I can’t say one damn thing about him without getting the response “it doesn’t matter because he got us Mahomes” and its really frustrating because I don’t have a lot of time to spend commenting, and when I do I’d like to not have the same conversation over and over and over again.

Team Player
Team Player

Convictions are more dangerous enemies of the truth than lies.

-Nietsche

Team Player
Team Player

(I’m not taking sides in the debate. I’m still in wait and see mode)

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

The problem is, that anger understandably blends into conversations with people who do not say, or would never be so stupid to say, “because Mahomes.”

I speak from recent experience.

I appreciate the rock and a hard spot this all put you in, wanting to have your own opinion but being the OG of the AG at the same time. I also think Sun Devil makes a couple of good points up there, too, man.

Does your email from before still work? The one that I joined with? I’ve got some thoughts on this issue that I’ll try and send you personally sometime today.

Anthony Stratton

Yup, its still the one.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

Weeeell to be fair, today it was you that steered the convo that way.

Anthony Stratton

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Leaf
Leaf

I think you mistake blind “because Mahomes” faith with a non reactionary approach. Last year was his first full FA/draft period. This year’s isn’t done yet. Has he been perfect? Hell no. But it’s really way too early to make an accurate determination on how good or bad BV will be.

Anthony Stratton

No, I’m saying I can’t can’t the number of times I’ve made a criticism regarding Veach and literally, not making an exageration, the response I’ve gotten was “yeah but we wouldn’t have Mahomes if it weren’t for Veach” or “it doesn’t matter as long as we have Mahomes”

I get the feeling we’re growing into a culture of the team (not just veach) can do no wrong because we have a qb and its the same mentality we used to flame Denver fans when they had manning for or Pats fans w/ Brady.

Leaf
Leaf

Well those making that argument are delusional. Pioli drafted Berry and Houston. Doesn’t mean that he didn’t need to go. I’m ok with questioning Veach. I’m just not full on hate train just yet. If this year’s FA/draft class isn’t an improvement overt last year’s, I’ll grab the torch and pitchfork with you.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Hear hear.

I mean, at this moment we literally have what, 3 defensive ends on the roster? Four? There’s definitely still a lot of work to be done, you can’t just have an NFL pass rush made out of “thoughts and prayers”.

upamtn

sending you thoughts & prayers that Veach drafts a top-notch DE

Anthony Stratton

Yeah, so sorry to all of you for my snappiness, but after updating all the FA stuff all day and finally getting to make a few comments last night, when I get hit with all the “because Mahomes” replies it puts me in 2 guns a blazin mode.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

It’s all good. It’s been a long time since I’ve been on the receiving end of “guns a blazin’ Anthony” & so it was a little mystifying, where you were coming from. NOW I get it, more clearly at least.

As I said a couple of times, I certainly hope I haven’t been one of these “But Mahomes!” people. (I do not understand “But Mahomes!” people).

Anthony Stratton

I think its only going to get worse. You listen to the media and its like…damn…if I wanted sunshine pumped up my ass I’d schedule a colonic.

Was thinking about writing an editorial on it, but it appears it may not yet be time for that…lol

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Ted Crews runs shit, you guys.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Good taek here. Entitled fanbases are shitty fanbases.

“But Mahomes” isn’t’s just a really stupid response online, it’s also a really poor team building approach in general. That’s exactly why Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy are no longer in charge in green bay

Cheat Code
Cheat Code

Veach cost us a SB appearance last season with his poor performance that offseason. No Chiefs fan should have much juice defending Veach’s honor as pushback against justified criticism.

Leaf
Leaf

comment image

Anthony Stratton

No one will agree with this…but me.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

I think whatever group of people decided that Bob Sutton was going to be his own Clancy Pendergast [should be reorienting the defense to a different scheme in his final year as coordinator], which ever group of people or singular person made that decision….cost us a Super Bowl.

I’m open to it being any member of chiefs management. Including Andy himself.

Cheat Code
Cheat Code

I mean, we were so close that one routine call on Dee cost us the SB experience. Don’t know why it’s so hard to fathom that an offseason full of mistakes created a situation where the Chiefs had to overcome too much to get to the big game. – It starts with retaining Sutton (we’re not in complete lockstep here, but I definitely feel that an upgrade here puts us in a much better position). This is also on Reid. – Fucking up one of the most team-friendly safety markets I’ve ever seen. We’re still feeling this mistake this offseason. Could’ve got the Honey Badger cheaper last season, or Reid, or Boston, or Vaccaro etc. A lot of no brainer upgrades and we sat on our asses. – Blowing most of our available cap on overpays for Watkins and Hitchens. Watkins was good when available, but that’s the rub. He’s usually hurt. Hitchens alone was a move that one could say cost us a SB trip. An average ilb does wonders for the defense. – Getting very little impact in the draft. Needed a lot more from the 18 class. DOD had moments, but he was a bit player. Nnadi looks good, but he’s mostly a limited run-stuffer in a passing league. Speaks was awful. Watts was injured so I guess you give Veach an incomplete on that one. McKenzie is purely developmental. Smith – ok returner, CB depth maybe. Not a lot of help on the field in that group. Bottom line is that he came into the offseason with the obvious agenda of improving a defense that had struggled mightily in 2017. He spent a lot of money and an entire draft to improve the defense . . . and he made it worse. How that is seen as not THE contributing factor in falling short of a SB in a game we lost after scoring 31 (scored 30+ in all of our losses) is an impressive feat of denial. The only reason Veach is still alive is because that was his first go-round in charge. There is… Read more »

Anthony Stratton

“Bottom line is that he came into the offseason with the obvious agenda of improving a defense that had struggled mightily in 2017. He spent a lot of money and an entire draft to improve the defense . . . and he made it worse. How that is seen as not THE contributing factor in falling short of a SB in a game we lost after scoring 31 (scored 30+ in all of our losses) is an impressive feat of denial.”

Its because we have Bob to blame. It was alllll Bob’s fault.

“The only reason Veach is still alive is because that was his first go-round in charge. There is hope that he can improve, but I’m not interested in pretending that we didn’t waste one of the best seasons by a QB in pro football history largely because of mismanagement in talent acquisition and coaching choices.”

The only reason he’s still alive is “because Mahomes”. Can you imagine the outrage the last 2 seasons ditching Peters, DJ, Houston Ford and Berry if Alex was still the QB?

upamtn

Veach cost us a SB appearance last season with his poor performance that offseason

sorry, but I don’t think one can point a single finger at a single individual and say “it’s all HIS fault!” when that same guy is the one who got the player that got the team to the AFCCG to begin with …

is Veach the model of perfection? of course not, but neither is Reid, neither was Sutton … everyone on the team could have done SOMETHING better, SOMETHING different and maybe – just maybe – the Chiefs would have gone to the SB instead

Cheat Code
Cheat Code

? Who is saying it’s one guys fault. We’re isolating Veach because he is the topic at hand. I’d argue that Veach bears the majority of fault for the defense, but yeah, other mistakes were made by other people. They aren’t the subject of this thread tho.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

I love that everybody wants to blame it on Brett, as though Andy and Clark have no juice on the flowchart themselves.

Chiefs media does a really, really good job selling our general manager to the fan base. It’s genuinely surprising how many people are buying high on all of that language, not ever looking back and seeing if there are any signs of a tail perhaps wagging the dog.

Brett’s probably in over his head at the moment, but I think our fanbase is too, to be honest with you.

I almost said it to Anthony, above… hell is other Chiefs fans

Chiefsfan115
Chiefsfan115

I love Brett Veach. I love his frankness, his aggression, his dedication to a vision. Hey, no GM ever born hits on every pick. If you sit down and compare any GM’s first 2 years in Chiefs Franchise History, none of them have done as well as him. None have been as bold as him.

I’m also very excited to see what the Defense does. If they’re good, the Chiefs will dominate the league. If the new D sucks hard, the Chiefs are going to be a 9, 10 win team. Brett Veach dismantled the car that finished 31st. It may not be what i would have done, but i admire him for doing it. Could the 2019 model be even worse? Could they finish 32nd? If the team loses 7 games, & the AFC Championship again, should Brett Veach be fired? It could be much worse at GM. We could have the idiots from the Giants or the Bills or the Eagles making personnel decisions.

ChiefZed
ChiefZed

I understand dragging the Giants right now, and even the Bills (even though it looks like they do have a plan). But the Eagles? It wasn’t that long ago that Howie Roseman pulled off an amazing turnaround, and they are still very competitive.

ChiefZed
ChiefZed

As for Veach, I’m going to withhold judgment for another season. He’s done some things that don’t look so good right now (e.g., Speaks and Hitchens, arguably Watson too). He’s jettisoned talent this off-season, no doubt, and I’m not sure I would have released Houston if I knew I was trading Ford. But it’s early yet, and still possible for the Chiefs to replace some of their production.

Veach inherited an aging, dysfunctional defense with little in the way of young, impactful play-makers (Peters and Jones, IIRC). He had a crappy defensive coordinator in Sutton, who probably knew his Xs and Os but had no clue how to build a team. Unless you are really lucky, it takes a bit of time to build back up. Even the Patriots had some down years on defense and they still aren’t all that talented.

The one thing I really question is his apparent preference for college production over athleticism when acquiring young players. Speaks, Watts, and Ragland spring to mind here. Perhaps this is an over-correction to Dorsey, who tended to err in the other direction. It’s possible, however, that so-so athletes can contribute in a context of good coaching and a complement of super-talented play-makers.

There’s reason to hope AND reason to worry, but it looks like there is a plan in place. We’ll just have to wait and see whether it comes to fruition.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

lol.. It really doesn’t look like there’s much of a plan in place. But I’m all for reserving judgement… Still a lot of offseason left.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Wonder how Veach would do if he had 100 million in cap space and multiple early round picks with Mahomes as his Qb. Bet we get OBJ too easily and more.

Warpath
Warpath

Didn’t realize Eli has rolled up that much jingle. Elway looks ready for the glue factory.

backbone313
backbone313

NFL avg the last 3 yrs is 79% snaps from shotgun. Flacco was 80% shotgun last yr, 73% last 3 yrs.

Why the irrational shotgun hate?

“Mahomes will struggle in the NFL without being able to play under center /just cause” signed draft experts

Spoiler
and Alex Smith fans

EAFOX
EAFOX

KPASS – tall and lean like Spags likes his lineman. Great athleticism. My pick for the breakout star and my prediction is that KPASS will have 12+ sacks this year. Bob Sutton buried him on the bench for reasons unknown. Would be a concern but Bob hid many talented players on the bench – Ward, DOD, Lucas… New coach can breathe life in talented players.

sydenham
sydenham

Yes that happens. Sure would be great if this happens for Tanoh, but I’m not going to hold my breath. The fact that he played much fewer snaps than Speaks is in part because of Sutton. Maybe Tanoh’s development hasn’t progressed (hope I’m wrong), he will be facing further competition in camp once FA and the draft is done. Someone here floated the idea Chiefs were seeking to trade him but no sources provided, doubt this is true, certainly this will be a defining year for him.

ChiefZed
ChiefZed

12 sacks for Kpassagnon? I’d settle for half that number. He does fit the profile, but I’m not sure he can really play football.

sydenham
sydenham

Momentous few days in Chiefland. No half measures for Veach. The line now drawn between Pioli and Dorsey and himself could not have been more clearly drawn. Time will tell how the rebuild goes, but it had to be done so kudos to Veach. Feeling a little shell-shocked, kinda like a goalkeeper facing 60 pucks in one game, where’s the next one coming from. Time’s yours: Speaks and Kpass. Have to wait and see if Veach signs Darby or another corner, and an edge. Really curious to see how the draft plays out.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Our new DL coach – forgot his name right now – has his work cut out for him with inexperienced defensive ends.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Luckily he’s an awesome coach

EAFOX
EAFOX

Daly – thanks for the reminder. We did compile a great list of assistant defensive coaches.

sydenham
sydenham

Brendan Daly, from the Pats. Tanoh is the great unknown.

Anthony Stratton

Allen Bailey visiting the Pats.

RDD India
RDD India

That’s bad for pat’s. Now we know how to scheme against Patsys.

sydenham
sydenham

Always liked Bailey, proved to be an okay drafting by Pioli, gave the Chiefs good effort, but it is time to move on from him. D needs to be younger and faster.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Your line is good if Bailey is your worst lineman – solid support man but not worth the money we gave him.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

One positive that I take away from this wave of moves is that Brett Veach gives zero fucks about yalls favorite player(s)… It’s kinda refreshing.

EAFOX
EAFOX

For good or bad, he is aggressive. Beats the days when our free agent signings were a backup TE and a fullback.

Anthony Stratton

I wouldn’t have an issue with it, if it weren’t for his habit of replacing our favorite players with significantly worse players because they’re “his guys.”

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

Jury still out on Houston and Ford replacements. Incomplete. Everybody was on board with Hitchens over DJ, and Mathieu replacing Berry is a sure win.

Don’t think he’s had enough swings for anything to be habitual, imo. Very anxious to see what he does with draft capital he’s not had since taking over.

Anthony Stratton

How about the MP22 replacements? Amerson? Scandrick?

“Everybody was on board with Hitchens over DJ”

Everybody? No. Plenty of people were against it. Of course, no one wants to remember that or talk about how Hitchens was graded dead last by PFF for all ILB/MLB’s (in the 80’s) last year and cost MORE than it would have cost to keep DJ, who even old as dirt and hopping on one leg would most likely been better than literally the worst LB in the NFL. Hell, if he was, at least he would have been cheaper.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

How bout Watkins? We’re paying that dude a boat load of cash for….not much. There’s a bunch of reasons not to be confident with Veach’s decision making.

EAFOX
EAFOX

I would give Watkins one more year here but his presence opened up lots of opportunities for Hill and Kelce.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

If it weren’t for Watkins we might still have JH50. Who would you rather have?

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Watkins. Watkins takes the offense to another level. We saw what Houston did with the defense last year.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

1. Mahomes takes this offense to another level. Not Watkins.
2. We did see what JH50 did with the D last year, we had the best pass rush in the league.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Watkins improved the offense more than without him. If Watkins doesn’t play against pats we are blown out. Where did that pass rush get us? How was our run defense? Still
Got Chris Jones who was a much better player last year and younger. Ford was better then Houston. Houston was not the main reason for pass rush success and he got lazy and unmotivated.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

Watkins being the reason we didn’t get blown out is a stretch at best. The Pat’s offense beat our D the way we used to play. The went ball control, attacking us with the short passing game, negating our pass rush. When was the last time we had a run D? The thing is teams don’t run at Houston.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Watkins and Mahomes helped fuel the comeback. Houston’s play is on the decline and we got out of that contract at a good time.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

Houston needed Justin Hamilton to call him out and motivate em to play at a higher level.

I don’t want any player like that making 20mil.

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

Seems to me that’s the kind of player you do want. The competition at their level is more mental than physical. Houston realized he had a weakness and did something about. No diva BS, just fixed a problem.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

That should not be a problem for a veteran making 20 mil that’s supposed to be the leader of a defense. Wheretf is his head at that a guy getting 5 percent of the snaps has to snap him outta his funk.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

So one of your most expensive players taking plays off and lacking motivation is ok for your team as long as he is motivated once he’s called
Out by a young unproven player?

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

Where did I say I was ok with it? I said he had a problem and fixed it. I guess you’re not ok with that.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

The issue is a veteran leader like him should never have that issue

RDD India
RDD India

Frankly I would rather have JH50. Mahomes is making Watkins tick.

RDD India
RDD India

I was hoping Watkins will win game vs Patsys. But he couldn’t. I would hope a premium player costing above 15 mil would make that much of an impact. How many times in first half was he wide open? It’s all on Veach.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

So do you like Kelce and Hill? Should we cut them? They had much worse games against the Pats when Watkins went off.

RDD India
RDD India

No I wouldn’t even cut Watkins now. My point is I expected more from a player making premium money like Watkins does. Hill don’t charge premium. Kelce has already delivered.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Hill about to get that premium. I really
Hope Watkins stays healthy and then this discussion will be over. Watkins was such a big asset in playoff game and during the season when healthy. I think it was a well structured contract. When Watkins goes we extend hill and draft another stud wr

RDD India
RDD India

Okay, let me clarify my assumption on Watkins contract. I am okay with length & amount over three years. Kudos to veach for keeping it 3 years. I’m not okay over return over one year. I expected more for 16mil.

Anthony Stratton

There’s been plenty of reasons to question him, but no one wants to “because we wouldn’t have mahomes without him”

EAFOX
EAFOX

Veach has made plenty of moves – some good, some bad, some incomplete. I would give him an overall passing grade.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

This is turning into a broader discussion. I simply meant, him being willing to cut a guy like Berry is a sign that he’s not going to keep a guy around for sentimental reasons.

RDD India
RDD India

I think cutting Berry is good. It’s no more a potential distraction/ false hope. Second is we will get some money free. Third one more roster spot. I love EB as a player. I got a jersey. I also waited for him to play for two years. I think as a team it’s time we move on. And it’s painful but it is what it is.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

His is the only jersey I’ve purchased since 2010.

I won’t get a Mahomes til I see a 2nd contract.

RDD India
RDD India

Haha. But I got PMII jersey already. I am gonna buy that bomber jacket after coming season.

Scallywag
Scallywag

Im never buying an active players jersey again. DT or Priest Holmes for me.

RDD India
RDD India

dont see any reason to disagree. But PMII pls?

RDD India
RDD India

I like Veach and hate him too. I understand why he cut Berry too.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

There are reasons to applaude and question him.

RDD India
RDD India

^^ This. For me Veach is On thin ice. Most of his FAs and project picks haven’t exactly panned out. I would give him this season. Or at least for me him getting Mahomes was a anomaly or an accident.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Ha hot take here. He’s had what one project pick in speaks? Who was progressing in a new role and has one year of exp. His Fa miss is Hitchens this far but let’s see how this year in 4-3 is. I like how Veach does aborted contracts for the most part with 3 year deals for stars. Also his other FA moves are solid. Watkins was hurt some but when he was in our offense was unstoppable and he kept us in the AFCCG

RDD India
RDD India

Haha. Okay, can’t blame a guy for hot take man. But agree on waiting one more season till 4-3 transition is complete to solidify ‘hot take’ in to ‘judgement’. After all I believe in fair chances.

Scallywag
Scallywag

So you are going to give him one year when he has to change the D to a new style, with a new D coordinator in that year. You are very generous.

RDD India
RDD India

He had one season already. 🙂 he got Hitch and Rags. Our window is is short. (And he’s the one who created it, I agree on that). But he’s gotta deliver on D too.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

He’s had one draft that is his, and he didn’t even have a first rounder.

I think this draft with a bit more capital will be way more telling.

RDD India
RDD India

Hey, for me passing grade is- D ranks between 20-25 range ( passing) and 15-20 (run d). Then Veach gets one more season.

BoJest
BoJest

To me part of BV’s problem was he had no first round pick, so his first pick in the second round was a project player? Plus he traded to go up for him when probably didn’t need to. That made no sense to me at all. That pick should have been for someone that could start right away or very soon.

backbone313
backbone313

Mahomes > then a 2018 1st round pick

#everytime

There is and never will be a player that will have a greater impact on the Chiefs franchise from the 2018 draft then #MVPat

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Two more drafts for sure for me at least.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

DJ was awful with no chance of getting better, and every film review I saw showed and concluded that Hitchens would be an upgrade. Didn’t pan out, obviously. The thinking was right tho.

MP? Sure. Those replacements were a complete whiff. But his release I don’t think applies to my premise of Veach has no problems releasing your favorite player. Different circumstances around Peters that forced Veach’s (or Clark’s) hand.

Anthony Stratton

Yeah, MP couldn’t get along with the coaches, right?

Then in Jan, it was “the coaches are the problem and the players don’t respect them”

And now I’m reading shit about how “JH, DF and EB were part of a Sutton Culture that needed washed away”.

Seems we’re getting fed the same excuse everytime the team chooses to blame someone else for their own problems.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

You saw the reviews where Houston was taking plays off and wasn’t motivated. He needed to go. We couldn’t keep Berry’s cap hold anymore for him barely playing. He had to go. Ford we could have kept but the cost was too high for the time and he got paid more than we were going to pay him.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

Uh, nah.

That was largely Anthem related, and his attitude around that. STH weren’t tryin to have it, so Clark Hunt wasn’t tryin to have it. Everything else is secondary.

RDD India
RDD India

Yeah. MP22 is on Clark.

Leaf
Leaf

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SCKSChief
SCKSChief

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Anthony Stratton

We all know the real reason.

I’m talking about the BS they sold us.

Leaf
Leaf

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SCKSChief
SCKSChief

Kietzman was outright saying yesterday (CAVEAT: I HATE THAT JACKASS) that guys like Houston, Ford, and EB were turning into cancers. He derived all of that from Ford’s comments about the defense. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. However, if you squint real hard and turn your head just right you can almost make it look like they could have been malcontents. I don’t necessarily buy it, but it’s another theory.

ArrowSpread
ArrowSpread

It’s not a stretch to think if Ford had an issue with being in coverage too much, that an older and slower Houston might also have some issues with it. I could see them resenting a scheme that puts them in that position more often than they should be.

Leaf
Leaf

Wow, you are going hardcore into the BV conspiracy thing. How is erasing the past culture that lead to the worst defense in the league last year a bad thing? Because they were beloved players? That sucks, but I hear all the time people saying they wish we had a bit more of that cold detachment that BB has. Now that BV has shown that people are getting pissy.

Anthony Stratton

Well, it was his team last year. Guess it was his culture too.

For the record, I don’t believe any of that shit. I just find it concerning that it feels like there has to be stories that leak about how horrible someone was who just got fired/cut/traded (add Dorsey to that list now that I think of it) and they all point to Veach being the hero.

What ever happened to firing someone and just moving on? Why does every move have to come with a “Veach was right all along” story? Its very strange to me.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Maybe everyone just enjoy working with Veach more than Dorsey?

Anthony Stratton

According to reports, all the coaches and players were miserable malcontents only after Veach took over. Guess it’d be the other way around.

But no worries. They’re all gone now. We’re going to the Super Bowl.

workingmansdead

To be fair, you spent a year saying that Peters was NOT a malcontent even after all evidence showed that he was. And now you’re gonna believe some dumb rumors and one tweet by Ford saying he wished he would’ve rushed the QB more? Seems a little dubious, my good beard.

Anthony Stratton

I must have missed all the issues he had in LA and how he is such a locker room distraction that the team failed make it to the Super Bowl.

Now, if you REALLY wanna get into some tin-foil hat theory…his two biggest mentors in the locker room were Houston and Berry.

/grins

workingmansdead

Yikes! Though I do want to note my agreeance with you on a lot of this stuff. Quite frankly, Veach has fucking sucked up to this point. That doesn’t mean he won’t do better moving forward, but it’s not good so far.

Anthony Stratton

To be clear, I don’t think they’re gone because of that.

But both have been noted for issues concerning drive/motivation/etc this year, after being considered the utmost in hardwork and being team players before. I wonder if what happened to MP22 made em realize the team don’t care about players the way they act like they do.

Leaf
Leaf

There seemed to be a lack of drive throughout the defense last year. Which is why one reason I was so anti Sutton.

Cheat Code
Cheat Code

Berry did say that it wasn’t “in his spirit” to play with an injury that didn’t require the IR or surgery. Subtle protest of the treatment of Peters?

/adds fuel to the fire

Leaf
Leaf

Maybe it’s because drama sells. There no proof that the “stories” are legitimate leaks or just media hot teaks to get clicks. I wouldn’t read too much into them.

Scallywag
Scallywag

Veach was told to get rid of Peters. Last year we were up against the cap, who was he supposed to get as a replacement? If they would have kept Peters last year we probably would have been a better D and we should have gotten more for him this year.

Dorsey looks like a superstar because he has 70 mil to spend, but Veach is still cleaning up the mess he left here after the Chiefs gave him the opportunity to excel elsewhere.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

You’re using hindsight. I believe he was talking about at the time of signing more people were happy with the signing. I still think of Sutton played Lucas and ward from the start, we would be more impressed with Veachs moves.

Leaf
Leaf

You are using hindsight to justify your DJ/hitch take. DJ absolutely sucked the year before. Hitch didn’t. Sure he was over paid, but no one at this time last year thought hitch wouldn’t help improve the ILB core. Ever thought he would play better than 2017 DJ. The only think anyone had issue with was the contract. As for Peters, there were other issues involved.

Neither worked out as planned, but neither were attempts to replace good football players with BVs guys just so he would have his team. DJ was old and broke down. So much that even a crap team like Oakland wouldn’t keep him for the full year. As harsh as it may sound, it wasn’t a bad move to move on. Peters had other issues that cost him his spot. read that however you want. I’m not taking sides in this particular argument here, but if thoes issues didn’t exist, he’d still be with the team.

Anthony Stratton

I said the same thing when it happened. Others did as well.

As usual, objective reasoning is drowned out because no one can say anything other than how “everything is perfect and we’re going to the Super Bowl” every year.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

I think that objective reasoning can go both ways with you too at this current point. All of us have our biases good and bad. I enjoy the constructive discussion though.

Anthony Stratton

I mean, I’m giddy AF we got Honey Badger. Still think we should have kept 1 of either Houston or Ford. No clue what the reasoning is behind people saying that dumping both of them doesn’t make our roster worse at the moment.

Leaf
Leaf

That’s because they have just been moved and the chiefs haven’t replaced them yet. That doesn’t mean they won’t. All I’m saying is let’s see what they do next before we go all emo teenager with a box of razor blades.

Anthony Stratton

And I’ve acknowledged that there is still time to correct that.

But the roster as it stand at this very moment IS worse than it was a week ago. I don’t think thats unreasonable to say, tho the masses apparently disagree.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

I’m ok with that take

Anthony Stratton

Yeah, lotta people won’t admit that tho.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

No, that’s correct imo

Leaf
Leaf

If we are talking semantics sure, it’s not an incorrect statement. I just hate the statement because unless it’s cancer, anytime you remove something it’s worse off than before. It feels like a water is wet Pete Sweeney click bait comment.

Anthony Stratton

But thats what we do every year right now with the “FA grades” and all that crap. Look at what you’ve lost, look at what you’ve gained, and determine if your better or worse.

If we’re worse, as of right now, it should be ok to say it. And if Veach goes out and signs a pass rusher and a CB before the draft, I assure you I’ll be ok saying we’re better than we are right now, maybe better than we were 2 months ago.

Regardless, saying that losing 2 of your best pass rushers isn’t a good thing shouldn’t be something I’d expect to be highly questioned…

Leaf
Leaf

True, and I make this argument every year around this time. I don’t like making snap judgments. Not that I don’t at times (everyone is human), I just try to avoid them.

I’m not going to lie and say I’m not nervous now that we’ve moved on from Houston and Ford. They were both talented players, and as you said in another post, you don’t move on from talent unless you have their replacement. This makes me suspect there is a carefully laid out plan. Doesn’t mean it’s a good one, only that one exists.

Leaf
Leaf

Not true. Did I say everything was good? No I didn’t. I said I don’t agree with your take because it isn’t logical. It’s founded on an irrational dislike of BV. I don’t think the guy is perfect. I’m not even saying the moves he’s made this year are good ones. I’m saying suggesting that he’s dismantling the team just so he can have “his”, is unfounded. Could it have been? Sure anything is possible, but there’s no real evidence to support that idea.

There is a damn good reason to have moved on from DJ last year. No one thought hitch was going to suck balls last year. 90% of people thought he’d be at least average, which, compared to DJs play in 2017, would have been an improvement. Nothing in the way hitch played in Dallas would have suggested that he would have played the way he did last year. So when the move to go from DJ to hitch wasn’t a bad one (the contract is bad, but the move not so much). Didn’t work out, but not every move does.

There’s a reason we moved on from Peters, and depending on what side of the argument you are on determines if you think it was good or not. I’m not here to argue that, but no matter which side of the story you believe, neither had anything to do with BV just trying to make his team with his players. That’s the issue I have with your argument. There’s nothing to support the idea except saying in hindsight “see the players he replaced were better than his replacements”. That in and of itself proves nothing.

EAFOX
EAFOX

In fairness to Bob Sutton, Veach made the transition to the 4-3 long before the defense did.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

The moves had to be made this offseason. Got Tyron who will be a better all around replacement for berry with watts and Lucas. Let’s see what happens with ford Houston’s and Nelson pick ups. Darby would be an improvement over Nelson for sceme.

Scallywag
Scallywag

You really feel like “not his guys” is the reason he got rid of Houston, Ford and Berry? That just sounds like bitterness Tony. Im thinking its 50+ million on 3 players coming from the 31st ranked D

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

MEME CITY baby!

Of course that’s the only reason hes doing at, Anthony. Who wouldn’t want to get their dream job and then be a complete asshole about it for every possible reason? “Forget everything we learned in their previous decade working and scouting and player development, let’s only pursue specific players we’ve had dreams about!”

I’m genuinely sorry for how bitchy I sound about this, but… give me a break, man.

The perception that every player he pursues and adds is somebody who is “his guy” and is here because of that is really, really short sighted.

I’m not saying the guy doesn’t make fuckups and doesnt have a lot to prove… I am saying, I think this whole “his guy” thing is way overblown.

Anthony Stratton

Example: Hitchens

After overpaying, he does a press conference saying he had tried to trade for him before and really really wanted to get him and wasnt going to miss out again.

A lot of the unspectacular guys he’s traded for or signed have a similar story behind them, of they were guys he wanted to draft or trade for ie “his guys”. And its been enough time that it is actually a thing like he’s trying to show everyone how right he was about a player.

Leaf
Leaf

Any guy he replaces someone with is “his guys”. This is a stupid argument. He isn’t just randomly cutting guys so he has an all BV team. They are all players we knew could go and speculated such because the nature of the business.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

I joked yesterday that this is like GoT…Veach is the football equivalent of George R.R. Martin. LOL

ElPasoJason
ElPasoJason

Any news on Darby?

I ask as I click past the page with the google search box.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Nothing as of now.

slackator
slackator

Elway really is an idiot, and its fantastic

EAFOX
EAFOX

Given the fact that Elway took a lot of shotgun snaps in his career makes me question his criticism of college quarterbacks.

CHIEFSandSABRES

He’s purely a horsehead that is ruining that franchise and I love it. That color combination of blue and orange is absolutely disgusting. Being in New Mexico I see tons of Donkey fans, not as many as when we moved here, but enough to feel sick walking around looking at their heinous jerseys.

CHIEFSandSABRES

Always a day brightener that Mr. Elway!

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

I came across a rousing discussion in the Berry thread between three long-timers, and I wanted to put some numbers down to add to it. Since that thread’s probably going to sleep soon, I figured I’d post my thoughts here….

Per Pro Football Reference, Hitchens wiki page, and the Dallas Cowboys season wiki pages…(tried to cross reference as much as I could, for accuracy)….

2014 DAL: Hitch began season as top backup, started final 9 games at WILL (9 starts)
2015 DAL Hitch started weeks 1-4 as MIKE, top backup after McClain returned, then weeks 12-16 as Mike after McClain was hurt again. (9 starts)
2016 DAL: Hitch started at MIKE all 16 games. (16 starts)
2017 DAL: Injured in p/s game 4, out weeks 1-4. Started week 5-10 at SAM, & week 11-16 at WILL in place of Sean Lee. (12 starts)

So he was a 4/5 of the time starter – including all of 2016 at MLB & all of his healthy time in ’17 at MIKE or WILL – more than a “part time” guy. However, it looks like he’d start different spots based on injury. I’d have to look at his PFF (I don’t subscribe, I ought to but don’t) to see how he scored out but most of the time it looks like he was either SAM or MIKE in their 43 system.

He wasn’t a “special package” guy, like some argue. In his last two years he was a full-time starter, when healthy (missed weeks 1-4 in ’17).

Bottom line: We’re all bitchy about him due to how bad he looked most of last year and his enormous deal, but I suspect we’ll like him a lot more (the player not the paycheck) in a system where he’s not forced to play weakside for 16 games.

Tyrone
Tyrone

Good research, I love it when people go to the effort to try to find our something relevant and share it with everyone.

I hope you’re right.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Was a solid pick up given his history and not mentioning his enormous salary given the fact that we will be in the 4-3 defense this year. Was lost in our other scheme but willing to give him a chance to prove himself this year.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

Good stuff, man.

I am hopeful this scheme change will benefit him.

Anthony Stratton

A 43 MIKE is essentially the same thing as a 34 WILB

At the end of the day, he was a JAG in Dallas who looked better than he was due to playing next to better LB’s and behind a stud DL. We’ll see how he does this year, but I don’t expect much to change unless we seriously improve the talent around him.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Completely disagree about the roles of a 34 weak side & a 43 MIke. I also disagree about how studly their line looked, that line didn’t actually get decent until about 2017.

And if that’s the case, can I expect you to shit all over Lee, Leighton, Jay Smith, etc? I honestly believe I should.

Scallywag
Scallywag

Alright discussions over, Tony has decided Veach sucks

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Feels that way, doesn’t it?

Anthony Stratton

I mean, I’ve always felt that way. And have always been open about it.

Take a look at it from my angle. When I complained about him signing Hitchens, all you guys told me I was dumb and about how good he was in Dallas. I said he would fail and probably won’t play out his contract.

He played terrible all fucking year, and rather than one single person have the character to say, oh damn, maybe Tony wasn’t just being an asshat, all I see is excuses for why he was the last ranked LB in the NFL and how a different system is gonna make him not terrible.

People taking “hindsight” shots at me. I’ve been saying the same thing since day one. Every time I turn around people are having to find a new excuse to defend him.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

So one signing has clouded your judgment

Anthony Stratton

I also said Watkins was a bad contract and that he couldn’t be trusted to play 16 games. Also said he drafted players who didn’t fit the scheme we ran on defense (which he publicly admitted to at the combine).

Yeah…my judgment is clouded.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

I don’t think Watkins was that bad a contract for the potential our offense had with him. Let’s see how it this year. He drafted one player in speaks that didn’t need to play right away. Sceme May help him better then but if he figured they had one more year with Houston and ford and then speaks time. Not a bad deal.

Anthony Stratton

My issue with Watkins is he’s a #2 WR who was the 3rd highest paid at his position at the time of the contract.

When that contract was announced, I said it gave Hill all the leverage in the world and that if he had a good season that he’d prolly get a record breaking contract because of it.

/shrugs

WTF_Chiefs
WTF_Chiefs

The Berry $ will be used to extend Hill/Jones and used on any camp cuts…..

CHIEFSandSABRES

Good morning AG! Our hearts were ripped out yesterday, but today is another day! Don’t tell me you haven’t secretly strategized in your head our defensive alignments and who we can sign. We are still in this thing, and I’m not going to just say “because Mahomes” but because of this team as a whole. EB29 will always be our guy. Today is a new day, take a breath and rally the troops!

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

Wrong. The only reason this team will challenge for a championship next season is “because Mahomes.”

CHIEFSandSABRES

Not just Mahomes, but okay if you feel that way. I mean Mahomes is the shit. But we will be okay.

EAFOX
EAFOX

How about Mahomes and company?

CHIEFSandSABRES

So you mean the team? The Chiefs?

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

I get what you’re saying and would usually agree, but not in these circumstances. We’re just starting a defensive rebuild, it will take a little time to work out the bugs. Even if they’re able to get every player they want, it’s gonna take some time to get everyone on the same page.

CHIEFSandSABRES

That’s the exciting part about it for me man! It’s like a breakup. Get to try all these new things out until something right fits again! I look forward to seeing if we improve. If we can stop drives. Not have 90 defensive snaps. I look forward to the new generation of defensive stars. I will 100% miss everyone we have cut or traded, don’t get me wrong.

Scallywag
Scallywag

I know a lot of you guys feel like important pieces have left, but I’m about over that shit. These guys DGAF about the Chiefs. Houston signed a huge deal and then didn’t deliver the goods. Rather than admit that and take a pay cut he held the team hostage. EB did the same thing (essentially), He took the huge payouts and then didn’t perform up to that payout. Ford is butthurt about not feeling the love…..FU buddy you had 1 good year.

I’m through with these clowns

EAFOX
EAFOX

Either Darby or Verrrett would be a welcome addition to the secondary.- will simply have to roll the dice on their injury history.

Team Player
Team Player

Can’t believe you’re saying that after yesterday. And I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you either. But I am, within reason:
1) a Revis-style out clause after year one
2) no more than 3 years
3) it can’t restrict extensions for Hill Jones or Mahomes

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

What about kicking the tires on DRC, a la Revis?

EAFOX
EAFOX

DRC as a potential starter and Captain Munnerlyn as a potential backup – Would check into both.

CHIEFSandSABRES

Pass on DRC, give me Darby instead.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Prefer Darby but keep DRC in mind if he does not sign.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

DRC is too old. Pass.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

Not talking about him as a either Darby or DRC option. Just depth…possibly move to FS a la Rod Woodson? If he wants a team friendly, prove it deal why not?

EAFOX
EAFOX

Getting them both would be fantastic. Darby is a young corner who has some serious skills and DRC would be great depth who has experience with Reid, Spags, and company.

Anthony Stratton

I prefer Darby, but they better check the medical box.

EAFOX
EAFOX

If Darby checked out, we should hear rather soon about signing him.

Anthony Stratton

I dunno…we still haven’t announced we signed Mathieu (officially).

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Remember, this team is glacial about anything official. Ted Crews keeps shit under wraps like he’s CIA

Anthony Stratton

The FBI wears Andy Reid pajamas.

stjoechief
stjoechief

You mean the Chiefs medical staff?

Why all the Three Stooges gifs?

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

Childhood memories man. They always had those guys on for the first show of the Saturday afternoon matinee.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Shout out to Moe, Larry, and Curly – half a shout out to Shemp.

Team Player
Team Player

What will they do with that cap space?
Who will play DE?
Do the Chiefs have a thing for injured corners?

These are burning questions for Chiefs fans. But we do know is that Sporting brings it day in and day out.

Anthony Stratton

I would have thought Ziggy Ansah would have been a solid target, but he’s set to visit NO.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Seems like they are comfortable with KPASS and a draft pick at the pass rush DE.

workingmansdead

That’s quite a gamble. Comfortable with KPass seems, um, iffy.

Team Player
Team Player

ta-NO-h! I’ll kPASSagnon on that mindset

probablyamistake
probablyamistake

At best

EAFOX
EAFOX

I am much more comfortable with KPASS at right DE then Speaks at left DE. In limited action, KPASS never seemed to be out muscled and he certainly has a burst of athleticism to his game. I think he has Jason Pierre Paul potential. Speaks looked weaker and slower but I do think that he has some instincts that could help his game as time progresses. A year in an NFL regime could boost his game.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

Still some guys out there — Markus Golden, Ansah, Shane Ray….we’re being rumor-tied to Ogbah if CLE lets him go…

We’ll see what happens. Pass rush and corner are glaring, glaring holes right now, to be sure.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Ogbah a possibility if cheap enough – Cleveland will eventually cut him.

Anthony Stratton

My biggest concern is a repeat of last year where Veach rolls with “his guys” and no backup plan and it bites us. Kinda like how Pioli never would bring in a QB to challenge Cassel, and the moment someone played decent enough to warrant consideration Pioli would ship him off, so that he could look good for “his guy” being the best option.

If Kpass and Speaks are “the plan” at DE I’m gonna lose it.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

I agree with you there. I don’t like that being the “bet the farm” plan.

EAFOX
EAFOX

I think Xavier Williams or Justin Hamilton could work at L DE if Speaks is unable to handle the physicality of the position on a regular basis. KPASS looks like the only one on the roster that works at R DE – this will surely be a target in the draft. Joey Ivie is on the roster as a defensive lineman but have no idea what he might bring to the table. Rob McCray – practice squad OLB for the 3-4 could be a potential 4-3 DE – short for the position and probably a long shot to make the roster.

SCKSChief
SCKSChief

I don’t think that’s something I’d like to lean on long term. I would guess Jones would play DE before that happened. The draft is going to include a couple DEs and probably an interior guy with Jones-like tools.

Anthony Stratton

A NT at DE?

/cocks head

Spags DL is usually built around tall, lean fast players all across the front. He’s more likely to play DE’s at DT.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Except we do not have a lot of tall, lean players save KPASS and Jones. Not saying this is the long term plan but both Hamilton and Williams have enough mobility not to be complete busts at the DE position.

Anthony Stratton

I’m going to have to disagree with them playing well at DE in this defense. Hamilton I think will be fine, but I wonder if Williams will even be a fit at DT.

EAFOX
EAFOX

Not sure about how well they might play but think it could be a possibility given our current roster.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

The only scheme either of those 2 guys have any business being defensive ends in, is a 34 scheme. They are not ends in a 4 man front–no way in hell.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Kpass is not his guy. His mistake from last year was Hitchens. I wish Sutton would have just played ward and Lucas earlier and we would be talking a different tune on Veach secondary moves. Also we will def be looking to address in draft.

Anthony Stratton

So he drafted Mahomes, according to fans, but not KPass? B/c he was sure talking like K-Pass and Speaks were both his guys when he was talking about how they’re both 4-3 players…

Either way, he was director of scouting when we drafted K-Pass, so he’s the one who put K-Pass in front of Dorsey to draft.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

There are many more articles stating how big his involvement was in the Mahomes draft pick then Kpass. Maybe Dorsey thought KPass was good for 3-4 and Veach always wanted a 4-3 defense and think KPass would be a better fit there. Maybe Dorsey was completely wrong with having KPass play a 3-4. There are no reports where KPass was Veachs guy or if he was the main scout there.

Anthony Stratton

Director of scouting. He’s over every scouting report, and if he doesn’t sign off on a player, that player doesn’t make it to the GM.

The moment KPass was drafted everyone said he was a 4-3 DE and thats what actually started all the speculation about a potential switch to the 4-3.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

But the GM can always overrule his opinion?

Anthony Stratton

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that the GM makes decisions based on the information the Director of Scouting provides him. So no matter what, he was involved in the selection, and the way he spoke lumping Kpass and Speaks together, I don’t doubt that they were both part of Veachs plan to move to a 43.

go_saleaumua
go_saleaumua

*Andy’s.

Let me borrow your tinfoil hat a minute.

I’ve lately begun to wonder if this 43 migration isn’t something Big Red concocted midway through the 2017 season. Notice the player acquisitions changed (less Rags, more Speaks) once they started formulating a franchise plan.

However, making that transition takes a lot of time and personnel cost…. Perhaps the defensive coordinator that Andy wanted wasn’t available or didn’t want to run a defense yet. (Lookin’ @ you, Spags)….. Hence why Bob wasn’t fired in 2017 like everyone expected him to be. He was his own transitional defensive coordinator, supposed to shift the scheme in a year. (He was his own Clancy Prendergast, switching from Cunningham to Crennel).

That would explain all the talk of Sutton updating his scheme, and now the Chiefs were acquiring a new kind of talent.… wouldn’t it? Because that is what the talk was last March, how Sutton was updating his defense and we were going after a different kind of player with a specific “mindset.”

This is why I keep referencing Ted Crews all the time … There is an institutional sales pitch going on here, to a degree

Scallywag
Scallywag

“My biggest concern is a repeat of last year where Veach rolls with “his guys” and no backup plan and it bites us”

I see this shit thrown around all the time. Who was he supposed to go get? Amerson showed ok then had an injury and we took a cheap flier on him, Scandrick was last second and wasnt the worst signing we have had at CB. CB wasnt the only reason we had the 31st ranked D last year.

Everybody talks about the D having no talent, but they had one of the top pass rushes and Sutton couldnt turn that into a middle of the road D

Anthony Stratton

Here’s a thought. Don’t get rid of a good player if there isn’t a better player available to replace them.

And its not a cap issue, we’ve had the money to pay all the guys he’s gotten rid of. Besides, the guys he’s brought he’s been paying more than the ones he got rid of, so he’s had a hand in the cap issues.

BuckeyeMike
BuckeyeMike

Maybe we don’t want to wait forever to extend Jones and hill and then get screwed like we did with these players and their contracts?

Anthony Stratton

We could have kept all of them this year and still extended Hill and Jones.